ppl use ar-15 indoors?

[badbadtz560]

I finally went to an outdoor range the other day to shoot my AR. There was another person shootin an ar-15 as I was gettin out of the car and MAN did my ears hurt (I was at least 50 yards away).

Do people seriously use the ar-15 for home defense or indoors at all? To me it seems like shooting that sucker inside a house.. would be like hitting myself w/ a flash bang w/o the flash part.... unless u wear earplugs.

Does military use ear plugs when using these indoors?

 

[orionhawk]

well, I sure use ear-plugs when I shoot mine indoors (at a range - only place I can). if I recall correctly, our guys on the ground are supposed to, but frequently don't.

it's quieter than a shotgun.


it was funny the time my muzzle blast blew down a ceiling tile, though

 

[General Geoff]

ANY firearm will cause permanent hearing damage if fired indoors without ear protection. Most magnum caliber handguns will be even louder than an AR.

 

[Big_E]

Sounds like someone has sensitive ears... jk

Yeah any blast is pretty loud if it goes supersonic, I have no problems shooting 22lr (any load that is below supersonic) indoors. I can shoot cowboy loads with no problem to my ears but i always use ear and eye protection when shooting.

However in a HD situation a little damage to hearing is a great deal for protecting the lives of yourself and loved ones.

 

[orionhawk]

yeah, that too. nobody at the range pays any attention to my M4, but when we lit off a 4" .500S&WMag...

 

[PTK]

My AR-15 is always silenced when shot. It doesn't hurt a bit to fire indoors, and is the primary HD rifle.

 

[Geneseo1911]

When I still lived with my folks, which I assume was long enough ago to be outside the statute of limitations, we had a coyote problem. They would come right up into the yard at night and harass our dog. I kept my brother's mini-14 handy, and took a couple potshots at them one night from my window. The muzzle was outside (albeit just barely), but let me tell you, that baby was still loud! I regularly shot starlings from my windows with my 10/22 (I MISS living in the country), so I didn't even think about hearing protection, plus I assumed most of the noise would be outside anyway. I suspect the report was amplified by the fact I was standing in a dormer, which was about 4' wide and 8' long.

My ears rang a little for a couple minutes, although I think I could have still heard someone if they raised their voice. I also thought about what would happen in a home defense scenario. I would say that you won't be able to count on your hearing after you fire that first round in an enclosed area.

 

[benEzra]

I've posted this elsewhere, but it's applicable here as well, I think:

http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml

Table 1. SHOTGUN NOISE DATA (DECIBEL AVERAGES)

.410 Bore
28" barrel.............150dB
18 _" barrel.............156.30dB
12 Gauge
28" barrel...............151.50dB
26" barrel...............156.10dB
18 _" barrel.............161.50dB

Table 2. CENTERFIRE RIFLE DATA
.223, 55GR. Commercial load 18 _" barrel.....155.5dB
.243 in 22" barrel...........................155.9dB
.30-30 in 20" barrel.........................156.0dB
7mm Magnum in 20" barrel.....................157.5dB
.308 in 24" barrel...........................156.2dB
.30-06 in 24" barrel.........................158.5dB
.30-06 in 18 _" barrel.......................163.2dB
.375 — 18" barrel with muzzle brake...........170 dB

Table 3. CENTERFIRE PISTOL DATA
.25 ACP...........155.0 dB
.32 LONG..........152.4 dB
.32 ACP...........153.5 dB
.380..............157.7 dB
9mm...............159.8 dB
.38 S&W...........153.5 dB
.38 Spl...........156.3 dB
.357 Magnum.......164.3 dB
.41 Magnum........163.2 dB
.44 Spl...........155.9 dB
.45 ACP...........157.0 dB
.45 COLT..........154.7 dB

Yes, a .223 fired in an enclosed space is EXTREMELY loud. So is any defensive-caliber centerfire pistol or 18" barreled 12-gauge. The pressure pulse may be a little longer and it may have a little more bass, but the loudness is comparable. A NFA-short-barrrel 14.5" .223, or a .223 with a muzzle brake, might be louder than a pistol or shotgun, but not an unbraked .223 with a civilian >16" barrel. 7.62x39mm (AK) isn't on the chart, but .30-30 is, and 7.62x39mm is ballistically similar. A typical AK with a 16" barrel will be a bit louder than the 20" .30-30 listed due to the shorter barrel lenght, though. And compare the .223 to the .357 revolver (louder probably because of the barrel-cylinder gap, which vents gas at much higher pressures than at the muzzle, and also has a much shorter barrel than the carbine). Egads.

Moral of the story is, firing pretty much ANY centerfire pistol, rifle, or shotgun indoors is going to be incredibly loud. But the sound levels are all pretty comparable.

FWIW, whenever I go shooting anything other than a BB gun, I wear both good earplugs AND earmuffs.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

Geoff: "ANY firearm will cause permanent hearing damage if fired indoors without ear protection. Most magnum caliber handguns will be even louder than an AR."

Having fired a large-caliber handgun indoors without hearing protection and having suffered no evident loss of hearing (my ears did ring for a day or so), I would disagree. It IS a hazard, but gun owners who keep a set of earmuffs on their headboard in case of home invasion are overplaying it.

 

[Acera]

Do people seriously use the ar-15 for home defense or indoors at all?

Come on do you really think that the noise is a concern in a home defense situation!?

If you are in a situation where you must discharge your firearm in your home, you have more serious things to worry about, like your life and that of your families, than the results of the noise.

A little common sense please.

 

[desidog]

I disagree with the chart above. There's no way that my center fire rifles are within 5dB of my 9mm. The rifles are much louder and the sound carries much further.

As to .223 for HD, it's not ideal both on a size/wielding basis, and unless you have a mansion, the muzzleblast will probably do more damage to the intruder than the projectile will. For short range HD, where you want maximum stopping power, the bigger diameter the bullet, or slug, the better - projectile speed is not an issue. the .223 will put a nice hole all the way through, but won't take the intruder back to the wall with it. Whereas with a 12ga. you'll need to get a spatula, and some paint.

 

[benEzra]

I disagree with the chart above. There's no way that my center fire rifles are within 5dB of my 9mm. The rifles are much louder and the sound carries much further.

A 3dB difference is twice the sound pressure (in terms of energy per square meter). 5dB is over 3 times the energy/square meter. Rifles also produce a longer pressure pulse, and a deeper sound. But the peak pressure levels are not that different.

Yes, the sound from a .223 will carry a bit further than a 9mm, but less than some other handguns.

Also, 9mm barrel length makes a difference, as does barrel length (hot defensive loads will often be somewhat louder than target loads, for example).

 

[kry_90]

the indoor range i go to has a rifle lane all by its self
really its just about the size of a long hallway
when i shoot the ar 15 its LOUD
i wear earplugs and ear muffs
sometimes i still get ringing

 

[General Geoff]

Having fired a large-caliber handgun indoors without hearing protection and having suffered no evident loss of hearing (my ears did ring for a day or so), I would disagree.

Evident loss of hearing ≠ actual loss of hearing. Just because you don't notice your hearing loss does not mean it's not there. ANY exposure of unprotected ears to 150+dB, no matter how fleeting, will cause permanent damage; whether it's slight or serious is dependent on the circumstance. And it is cumulative.

 

[SN13]

Question: Do you use hearing protection when you're Hunting?

When I shoot my 22" .308 outdoors, it rings like the dickens and my hearing is diminished for a few minutes. It's just what happens.

Now, that being said, the tasty deer cutlets and ground venison were worth it!

 

[Funderb]

Your ears engage in active motion damping in high noise environments, unfortunately, it take a while for this to happen.

 

[trstafford]

Ear Muffs

Are you saying that there are some people that do not keep ear muffs or ear plugs on the night stand just in case they hear a bump in the night?

 

[Funderb]

if you wear them to bed you don't even have to worry about hearing that bump in the night!

 

[General Geoff]

My electronic muffs provide me with a tactical advantage, should there be a bump in the night. They not only dampen loud noises, but they amplify very quiet noises. And yes, I keep them in my nightstand.

 

[W.E.G.]

...gun owners who keep a set of earmuffs on their headboard in case of home invasion are overplaying it

The amplified models will actually improve your hearing prior to firing a shot.

Reasonable steps to ensure one's safety, and contribute to the success of the mission are never "overplaying."

 

[bkb0000]

houses are fantastic sound absorbers- shooting in an indoor range is absolutely nothing like shooting in a carpeted, drywalled and textured house with furniture and knockdown ceilings to soak up half the report. i had occasion to discharge 2 rounds from a 3.5" barreled .45 while in a bedroom and suffered only momentary perceivable hearing loss, versus the time i fired 1 round from the same gun without earpro while standing outside on gravel- i couldnt hear for a day.

 

[moooose102]

i am not much of a fan of shooting without earplugs if i can help it. but you have to THINK about the case at hand. if there is a b.g. in your house, are you going to give up one of your senses? not likely. it is way better to live to see another day, even if you loose your hearing than to die in your own home because you couldnt hear the b.g. coming up your stairs. as for our troops, if i were there, i certainly would not be wearing earplugs, for the same reason stated above, only trippled. better to come home deaf, than in a body bag!

 

[usmc1371]

I was issued ear plugs both times I was deployed to Iraq. Nice for training but the times when you really need to shoot you also really need to be able to hear the people around you. There is nothing friendly about friendly fire. Hearing loss happens even when you don't think it is. My hearing is crap compared to the day I joined the marines. I have a hard time hearing high pitch sounds and my ears ring some times out of the blue like I just shot a rifle. Usuly when I am watching tv or something like that.
A couple years ago I stood right next to my little bro when he fired his 338-378 with factory muzzle brake and I spent a week elk hunting with no hearing in my left ear. And it felf like i got punched in the face. I wear ear plugs AND muffs when I am target shooting now to save whats left of my hearing but when hunting the one or two rounds I fire don't seem to make my ears ring but i think its cause I am all excited about smoking down bambi.

 

[PTK]

Here's why I love my silencer and keep this rifle as shown for HD...

Video Link

 

[Ranb]

Big E, when you say "Sounds like someone has sensitive ears...", what it actually means is that he has good hearing. Anyone who thinks they are getting used to loud noises is actually losing their hearing. Always use a good silencer or other hearing protection.

Ranb