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Practical accuracy difference between a G34 and a G17

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Hunter2011, Aug 2, 2013.

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  1. Hunter2011

    Hunter2011 Member

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    Hi guys.
    I know the G34 should be more accurate due to the longer sight radius. Lets say I am a little better than average to a good shooter, not nearly an expert shooter.
    How much difference in group sizes will I get between the two when shooting off a rest at 50 yards?

    And if I take the 9mm G17 and put it up against the same sized .45 Glock? Which if the two will give me better group sizes under the same conditions as above?
     
  2. mgmorden

    mgmorden Member

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    Off of a rest there should be virtually no difference. The longer sight radius helps you quickly align the sights, but that mostly helps at speed. Fired slowly the advantage is neglible.

    That said, not a lot of people regularly shoot off of a rest. Shot free-hand you should be able to break a shot quicker with the G34 or hold slightly tighter groups, but how much quicker and tighter will vary greatly from person to person.

    As 9mm vs .45 accuracy-wise, there will be no definitive difference (at least no more than two Glocks would exhibit from each other even if they were chambered for the same round). What makes people perceive lighter recoiling rounds to shoot more accurately is 99% mental. If you're anticipating the greater recoil you trigger control won't be as good and so your shots may be less accurate with the .45, but thats you - not the gun.

    Aside from accuracy though the lighter recoil of the 9mm will offer a quicker follow-up shot (with the "split time" between the two lessening with experience).
     
  3. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    I have a friend who is a much better distance shooter than I and he ran some comparisons a couple of years ago in preparation of going to the Bianchi Cup. He told me that the G34 exhibited acceptable accuracy at 50 yards and the G17 wouldn't. His testing off a bench showed that the G34 would hold about 2" and the G17 was about 50% less accurate. The interesting thing was that he also happened to have a G19 that he was shooting and it was almost as accurate as the G34. Sight radius really doesn't make a gun more accurate, what it does is exaggerate your aiming errors, so that you can correct for them.

    My experience in shooting many examples of all three models has reflected the same thing. The G19 is almost as accurate as the G34 and both are more accurate than the G17.

    In .45ACP, my only experience has been with three G30s. Each has been very accurate, a bit more than a G19
     
  4. johnmcl

    johnmcl Member

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    My findings line up with 9mm's.

    Earlier this year I ran a small study. I had five shooters ranging from a competent defensive shooter to a nationally ranked competitor. I had them each shoot 20 rounds from a G21, G30, G34, and G17 at a stationary target at 25m, off the clock.

    The individual scores didn't matter to me, but the order of accuracy for the guns fired did. The scores went pretty much as ordered. The G21 and the G30 were statistically tied. Slightly behind those pair was the G34. A measurable distance behind the G34, but not huge, was the G17.

    As a finale, a shooter in the middle of the experience curve produced a Cylinder and Slide tuned Browning Hi Power and crushed the plastics.

    Short story? The G34 and the G17 are pretty darn close, but in that order.
     
  5. jerkface11

    jerkface11 Member

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    Nonsense. The longer sight radius is more accurate rest or no rest.
     
  6. Bovice

    Bovice Member

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    For the effective range of those pistols, being longer barreled does not increase your accuracy. It makes it easier for you to shoot it, but that's it.
     
  7. mgmorden

    mgmorden Member

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    Not really. The difference between the two may be there, but it won't be worth noting. From a rest the gun will be nearly still, making the small jitters/tremors that the longer sight radius helps you correct not nearly as much of an issue.

    There is no MECHANICAL improvement in the longer sight radius - as Bovice said it makes it easier for you to shoot it, but when shooting from a rest the advantage granted by the rest is going to largely overshadow the advantage of the longer sight radius.
     
  8. jerkface11

    jerkface11 Member

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    I'm not sure where you keep getting that's it's faster to line up a longer sight radius. It's more precise because a smaller movement moves the front sight out of it's position on target.
     
  9. Hunter2011

    Hunter2011 Member

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    I find it strange that a G19 shoots more accurately than a G17. It does not make sense, but if that is the true world results I will believe it. So then a G34 is not really worth it?
    Can I ask what is the best most accurate Glock to get, no matter the caliber, for silhouette shooting? I thought the G34 was the one, but it seems not to be the case.
     
  10. mgmorden

    mgmorden Member

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    Its faster because shots done at speed are the ones with the most movement involved. If you're trying to break a shot while you're still recovering from the recoil of the previous one then the longer sight radius is faster to notice that your sights aren't aligned and get them back on target.

    When shooting off-hand even slowly the advantage will still be there (though to a lesser extent) because there's movement involved. The little sway from your arms, the tremble in your hands - all moving the sight slightly requiring you to keep correcting your sight picture where the longer radius will help.

    However, when slowly shooting from a rest you can take all the time in the world to get your sights aligned (and the stability offered from the rest means that it takes much less effort to keep them aligned). There will be little practical difference between the two when shot that way.

    Essentially, the more chaotic the conditions, the more the longer sight radius helps. The more controlled it gets, the less it matters.
     
  11. jerkface11

    jerkface11 Member

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    And yet still wrong. With a shorter sight radius it takes a bigger difference in point of aim before you notice it. So a longer radius will always be more accurate.
     
  12. mgmorden

    mgmorden Member

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    We're going to have to agree to disagree on this.
     
  13. jerkface11

    jerkface11 Member

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    You disagree that you have finer control of your sighting with a longer sight radius?
     
  14. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    That is a good position to let the thread continue. I actually see both points of view and understand both sides of the disagreement...without choosing a side, they are equally reasonable

    If either of you would like to discuss it in more depth, I'd suggest starting a separate thread
     
  15. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    I think it is. Don't confuse the greater accuracy of the G19 compared to the G17 to extend to the G34. Sight radius isn't everything

    If you mean Metallic Silhouette shooting, why would you choose a Glock to begin with?
     
  16. Hunter2011

    Hunter2011 Member

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    The item I want to shoot in limits the barrel length to 6 inches or less.
    I just love the ultimate reliability of Glocks.
    If not a Glock, what else?
     
  17. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    We may be talking apples vs. oranges.

    The MS (IHMSA) that I am referring to usually limits barrel length (in Field Pistol) to 11" and is shot on half-scale animals (chicken, pig, turkey, ram) out to 100 yards; are we talking about the same sport?
     
  18. Cycletroll

    Cycletroll Member

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    I own Glock 26,19,17, and 34. Given time and a good day I can can shoot near 1" groups off a rest at 25 yds with all of them with ammo they like (not the same accuracy load is shared by all guns). I have shot IDPA with the 19, the 17, and the 34. The biggest difference is that high speed tracking and recoil impulse is easier with the 34.
    AFAIAC trigger work and better sights contribute more to accuracy with Glocks than the size of the gun.
    It really is hard to beat a 17 or a 19 as an all around gun. Would probably choose the 17 for a duty gun and the 19 for CCW.
    The 34 is just my dedicated gun game rig. The 26 is not really that much smaller than the 19 and is harder to shoot well fast and has less capacity.
     
  19. Hunter2011

    Hunter2011 Member

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    There are various items in metallic silhouette shooting. I just know this item I want to start shooting in requires a barrel length of 6'' or less. Other items, in the same sport are even unlimited, you can choose the barrel length of your pistol if I'm correct. So a single shot target pistol with a 10'' match barrel is out for my needs, unfortunately.
     
  20. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    If you are shooting out to 100 yards, I'd recommend something like a SIG X-5 or a S&W 952
     
  21. ku4hx

    ku4hx Member

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    What event are you shooting? I've used .22LR semi autos for local "fun shoots" but when I was competing in major center fire matches revolvers and single shot handguns were most prevalent.

    When 100 yards was my max range, I used a Blackhawk .357 Magnum 6" barrel at first and later a .357 Maximum with 10.5" barrel.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallic_silhouette_shooting
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2013
  22. tarosean

    tarosean Member

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    +100
     
  23. KYamateur

    KYamateur Member

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    I have a G19 and a G34. When shooting 15 yards and shorter I can actually shoot the G19 better. If I take the distance out to say 25 yards are more I shoot the G34 ten times better. I do not use a rest. I only shoot standing. My results may not be typical but that is how they compare in my personal experience. I can actually hit some targets at 50 yards with the G34 while standing. If I do that with the G19 it is just luck. Again, no scientific data, just my real world shooting experience.
     
  24. dwhite

    dwhite Member

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    I have a Taurus 2/7 PRO Compact (3.5 inch barrel) in .40 that shoots circles around my G22. I've heard of 27's and 26's out-shooting their larger relatives. Sight radius isn't everything.

    All the Best,
    D. White
     
  25. Geno

    Geno Member

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    I have owned both a G34 and G17. I wasn't overly impressed with the 34. I didn't like the balance.

    Geno
     
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