Practical and accurate range for a 30-30 Winchester

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Your speaking of my father in law's rifle. He could manage about 2-2.5". Like a lot have mentioned he is a hunter not a shooter, and a Heck of a hunter he is. He had(gave up hunting when his tremors got bad) a knack for nailing large mature bucks from improvised stands and blinds for a long time. 12 or 14 point buck walked within 150 yards of him, it was getting drug out. 150 gr corelocts were his load of choice, Enough for his 400+ lb Canadian black bear.
I have a 94 win that shoots sierra 150 gr fn over 33 gr of norma 201(2255fps over the chrono) in cloverleaf at 50 yrs. At 100yds I have trouble seeing the front sights but it shoots better than I see . I live in Jersey so for now it only whacks paper deer.
 
I shoot 30-30 at 100 yards. Works well using the 160 grain Hornady FTX.

Edit: one too many zeroes in my original post. Fixed.
 
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I know a guy who loaded Berger match bullets in his 24 inch early 1900's Winchester (.30-30) 94 (single load, not in the magazine). I saw him hit a 24 inch steel plate using a tang sight at eight hundred yards. Just last weekend a guy was shooting a Winchester .30-30 and repeated busting 3/4 size IPSC steel plates at 175 yards with light reloads. They shoot better than you think.
 
I would sight in a 30/30 at 125 yards and treat its effective point blank range to be 150 yards. Anything past that and I would need to know the exact range with a range finder and have a look up chart. A typical flat point 30-30 load so sighted is like 6" low at 200. 10" low at 225, and 14 inches low at 250. So you really need to know your range. Misjudging the distance from 200 to 225 yards is enough to drop out of the vitals. I don't know about you but I can't accurately estimate 200 vs 225 yards. A 10 mph wind drift at 250 yards is also 15 inches so keep that in mind. Misjudging the distance by a few yards or missing the wind by a few mph combined with the 2-3 moa accuracy of the rifle can turn your kill shot into a gut shot or a leg shot. I assume based on the game you are after that you can expect longer shots. If so you would be better served with a 270 or 6.5 creedmoor or similar.
 
someguy2800 said:
I would sight in a 30/30 at 125 yards and treat its effective point blank range to be 150 yards. Anything past that and I would need to know the exact range with a range finder and have a look up chart. A typical flat point 30-30 load so sighted is like 6" low at 200. 10" low at 225, and 14 inches low at 250. So you really need to know your range. Misjudging the distance from 200 to 225 yards is enough to drop out of the vitals. I don't know about you but I can't accurately estimate 200 vs 225 yards. A 10 mph wind drift at 250 yards is also 15 inches so keep that in mind. Misjudging the distance by a few yards or missing the wind by a few mph combined with the 2-3 moa accuracy of the rifle can turn your kill shot into a gut shot or a leg shot. I assume based on the game you are after that you can expect longer shots. If so you would be better served with a 270 or 6.5 creedmoor or similar.
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If you read some of my posts, you'll know where I stand on the 30-30. It's dropped most of the deer I've killed in my life. I keep mine zeroed at 200yds knowing that if I get a closer shot I have to aim a few inches low. I have made a couple 400yd+ kills with mine, but I wouldn't recommend for most folks for the reasons you've mentioned above.
In factory ammo, my model 94 likes Winchester 170gr extreme points. I'm testing the Factory Lever Evolution 160gr FTX as well as reloading them but as of right now, if I had to shoot a deer tomorrow, I'd load up the Win 170gr and I'd be comfortable taking a quartering or broadside shot out to 400yds under the right conditions. At that distance, my bullets are dropping almost four feet, the drop is actually more, but since I'm zeroed at 200yds, the POI is a little less than 4ft for me. This means my POA is about 3 feet over the deer's back at 400yds.
 
The old 300 meter international load was the 173 gr military match boattail about the same velocity as a good stout .30-30. It shot very well for the day, although now we would criticize it for low case fill and a FMJ bullet. Of course that was in Springfield Type T and Swiss Martini match rifles.

I tried a few in my 788 and they did not do a whale of a lot, even in bolt action, because the magazine limited the OAL of a spitzer so much. I ought to retry single shot with bullets loaded close to lands.
 
243winxb said:
Not so with a 30-06.
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I'm sorry, but I can't agree with this statement. I've shot a helluva lot of deer with the 30WCF, and about 75% of which dropped where they stood. The other 25% didn't run over 100 yards. I've also shot a helluva lot of deer with a 30-06. As a matter of fact, it's my all-time favorite rifle cartridge. I'll never say a bad word about it. But, I'll say this: about 75% of the deer I've shot fell dead in their tracks when that '06 punched 'em. The other 25% didn't run further than 100 yards. The only difference was distance. And, surprisingly, the deer shot with the '06 that were under 100 yards tended to run whereas the ones shot with the 30WCF didn't seem to run at all, or if they did they ran about 10 steps. The best way I've found to keep deer from running off is to either: a) Shoot them in the Head, or b) Break the Shoulders. Either cartridge is capable of breaking shoulder joints; the '06 just breaks 'em further away.

All that to say, at the end of the day there will be just as many "running deer" get away from the '06 as will the 30-30. I've had deer run when shot with a .222, a .270, and even a 50-140 Sharps. I'd be willing to bet that the reason they ran had less to do with what kind of gun they were shot with, and more to do with the man doing the shooting.

Mac
 
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A guy here had a feral hog infestation of the family farm, so he and his friends shot pigs with everything imaginable. He said the best killer was .30-30, better even than magnum rifles. Of course ranges were not long and maybe the lighter recoil of the .30-30 made good hits easier. But it worked.
 
I have no experience with hogs but I would think a 30-30 would be about ideal for them. Plenty of power but mild recoil, decent capacity and fast follow-up shots.
 
The 30WCF in my opinion, is really underrated by many folks, especially when I note " I shoot factory 150- 170s and only out to 150 yds. Of course the rifle is not going to be a wiz bang knock down wonder, its perfectly adequate for most tasks given meek factory loadings and a, again in my opinion, poor sight set up.
It's when guys abandon IMR3031, 4895 and the like and use a different propellant. BLc2, H335 and the like juice up the performance levels immediately, and with prudent study of pressure one can launch 130 Speer Flat nose at 2700 fps all day and still be under the SAMI pressure recommendations.
2400 is achievable with 150s also reimagining different propellants.
With an optic, this really changes the 3030s old slow pokey cartridge characteristics in terms of point blank ranging and viable distance shooting.
 
Hugger-4641 said:
If you read some of my posts, you'll know where I stand on the 30-30. It's dropped most of the deer I've killed in my life. I keep mine zeroed at 200yds knowing that if I get a closer shot I have to aim a few inches low. I have made a couple 400yd+ kills with mine, but I wouldn't recommend for most folks for the reasons you've mentioned above.
In factory ammo, my model 94 likes Winchester 170gr extreme points. I'm testing the Factory Lever Evolution 160gr FTX as well as reloading them but as of right now, if I had to shoot a deer tomorrow, I'd load up the Win 170gr and I'd be comfortable taking a quartering or broadside shot out to 400yds under the right conditions. At that distance, my bullets are dropping almost four feet, the drop is actually more, but since I'm zeroed at 200yds, the POI is a little less than 4ft for me. This means my POA is about 3 feet over the deer's back at 400yds.
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If I had one that I had shot a lot at that range, and it grouped around 1moa, and it had relatively good extreme velocity spread, and I had time to laser the range and I had time to compute the elevation adjustment, and there was no more than a few mph of wind, then and only then would I be comfortable taking that shot. If any of the above conditions are not met then I am out because a clean vital hit is going to require luck.
 
someguy2800 said:
If I had one that I had shot a lot at that range, and it grouped around 1moa, and it had relatively good extreme velocity spread, and I had time to laser the range and I had time to compute the elevation adjustment, and there was no more than a few mph of wind, then and only then would I be comfortable taking that shot. If any of the above conditions are not met then I am out because a clean vital hit is going to require luck.
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I would not deny some luck in those shots I made. But the funny think about luck; it is more abundant the more prepared you are. I always know the range of any trees, fences, ditches, or other features in my hunting area. I know what my rifle will do at any range that I'm willing to pull the trigger. Adjusting for wind is the biggest variable for me when I put a deer in my scope, and I'll gladly admit some luck with that.
 
I like the 30wcf as much as anybody but it definitely has its limitations. My longest shot with one to date is about 160 yards and it dropped about 3 or 4 inches from 100 yard zero. That’s with 150gr bullets. The 170s are slower and drop faster. 200 yards and 6 inches drop is all I’m willing to do. On deer that means aiming along the spine and dropping into a upper lung and/or heart shot. With practice a man can do better and reach out further, then again there are times where a man just gets lucky. My dad accomplished a lucky shot in 1988 or 1989 and dropped what is still the largest deer ever taken off of the family farm. It was freakishly large bodied and had a rack to match. Mainframe 10 plus matched splits making it a 12 pt in the upper 160 range. Dad hit the deer in his legs and ran up to 200 yards to put him down. The first shot was at about 450 yards and dad said he aimed a full deers height over the top of the deer. Not my kinda shot but in the heat of the moment he made it happen, and quickly dispatched a wounded animal. With drop that severe, very realistically it’s a gun for the woods at distances no more than 200 yards. If there is open ground and possible longer shots then there are much better options, but a 336 will do in a pinch.
 
Hodgdon data showes the highest velocity for both 30-06 & 30-30. 3128 fps vs 2512 fps. The 150 gr bullets out of 24 " barrels, has the 06 faster by 616 fps.

Both have the same knock down power. :evil: :D

LVR powder @ 2512 fps in the 30-30, other powders are around 2100 fps.
 
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Hugger-4641 said:
I would not deny some luck in those shots I made. But the funny think about luck; it is more abundant the more prepared you are. I always know the range of any trees, fences, ditches, or other features in my hunting area. I know what my rifle will do at any range that I'm willing to pull the trigger. Adjusting for wind is the biggest variable for me when I put a deer in my scope, and I'll gladly admit some luck with that.
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I would say if you are well prepared then there is no luck involved, and if you can repeat it multiple times then you were indeed very well prepared so kudos to you for making the shots.

It does remind me of a story that one of my hunting partners has told about 1000 times. Where we hunt the typical range of visibility is under 100 yards and usually more like 50 but some number of years ago he shot a really nice buck that just happened to show in his line of sight at about 400 yards with his 270 that I load for him. I have measured the distance from his stand to the spot where he shot it, and it is an honest 400 yards. Now I shoot with this guy quite a bit and he is an excellent shooter, but I know for a fact he has never shot that rifle past like 150 yards and is not interested in ballistic calulators, so a totally different story than yourself in terms of preparedness.

In his retelling of the story he always says that he held right on the deer's back and pulled the trigger and down it went. Well I load the ammo he shoots and I've chrono'd it myself, and if you do the math on the ballistics he should be 38" low at 400 yards, so if he had really been on the top of the deers back when he shot he would have shot well under it. He tells me at least 2 or 3 times a year about how I need to get another 270 of my own because it will knock em down at 400, blah blah blah. I have never gotten the nerve up to tell him.
 
Currently my most versatile rifle in terms of reloading is my 336. I have upgraded the sights to Ranger Point aperture sights with Skinner front Patridge sight. I have not shot this combo yet but I did shoot the RPP with the factory bead sight and could get groups of 3” at 100 yards. I have a 110 grain FMJ plinking load that shoots about the same. I wouldn’t shoot at game past 100 yards without a lot more practice, but I plan to try the 110s out to 200.
 
DMW1116 said:
Currently my most versatile rifle in terms of reloading is my 336. I have upgraded the sights to Ranger Point aperture sights with Skinner front Patridge sight. I have not shot this combo yet but I did shoot the RPP with the factory bead sight and could get groups of 3” at 100 yards. I have a 110 grain FMJ plinking load that shoots about the same. I wouldn’t shoot at game past 100 yards without a lot more practice, but I plan to try the 110s out to 200.
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For plinking those 110s will be fine out to 200, but I wouldn't use them on anything bigger than a coyote at that range.
 
Risky buisness said:
The 30WCF in my opinion, is really underrated by many folks, especially when I note " I shoot factory 150- 170s and only out to 150 yds. Of course the rifle is not going to be a wiz bang knock down wonder, its perfectly adequate for most tasks given meek factory loadings and a, again in my opinion, poor sight set up.
It's when guys abandon IMR3031, 4895 and the like and use a different propellant. BLc2, H335 and the like juice up the performance levels immediately, and with prudent study of pressure one can launch 130 Speer Flat nose at 2700 fps all day and still be under the SAMI pressure recommendations.
2400 is achievable with 150s also reimagining different propellants.
With an optic, this really changes the 3030s old slow pokey cartridge characteristics in terms of point blank ranging and viable distance shooting.
Click to expand...

You have my attention.
 
At that range any load in the 336 is a paper load. I have faster and flatter cartridges for that. If the 336 was still my only center fire rifle it might be different but I’d also have much more practice with it if that were the case. I used H335 for the 110 grain load but accuracy was inversely proportional to velocity so I loaded all of them up at the minimum charge and went with it.

I want to try some different bullet shapes and try the 1+1 loading but haven’t had the chance yet.
 
Those 130 fn speers look like a good bullet, I have a box im going to try in my 7.62x39 I have a box of 150 round nose speers that look good as well there not a normal looking rn and have not canntilure feed like butter in my cz.
 
High Plains said:
I would also like to know what you consider the realistic range for such a cartridge.
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A great question applicable to all firearm types and calibers with no quantitative answer.

What is the distance you can shoot the given device with enough accuracy to ensure a kill shot, under the conditions you will be using it, on the intended target?

That answer, is your answer.
 
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