Practice Loads and Defense Loads

[Ian11]

I've always shot 230 grain FMJ factory loads for practice in my .45's. Usually CCI Lawman, CCI Blazer, Federal American Eagle, and sometimes Winchester White Box. One day a friend told me I should shoot 185 grain loads or softer reloads for less wear and tear on the gun and its softer shooting too. While I don't completely agree I think he has a good point too. My defense loads are 230 grain Golden Sabers in my .45's

How many of you normally practice with something "softer" shooting in your autos compared to your defense loads. I'd just like to know how many of you do or don't.

 

[WonderNine]

It's nice to be able to practice shoot the exact same load you carry. I shoot and carry 9mm NATO 124gr.

I certainly wouldn't switch to 185gr. for less 'wear and tear', but I'd switch if it was significantly cheaper. So long as you still shoot some defense loads once in awhile.

 

[Ian11]

Unfortunately, 185 grain loads aren't any cheaper than 230 grain loads. At least, most of the places I looked. Besides, when I shoot .45 ACP I like to know I'm shooting .45 ACP esp. at those prices

By the way Wondernine,

Which 9mm handgun do you shoot 124 NATO rounds out of? How does it shoot and how is your gun holding up? I notice Natchez has them available and I'm thinking of trying them out on my SIG P228.

 

[only1asterisk]

There is something to be said for soft shooting loads, esp. when one is just starting out. Less buck and roar is less fatiguing, and lets you concentrate on sight alignment and trigger control.

It is hard to reach a level of training so realistic that ammo is the least realistic part. It is a good idea to practice with defensive ammo on occasion. Every 6 weeks or so, I round up a box or two of ammo that has been chambered in my carry gun, sitting in the nightstand gun or car gun, etc.. Then we go to the range and use it in the most realistic drill circumstances permit.

David

 

[WonderNine]

I shoot it out of my Browning Hi-Powers and out of a Beretta 92. They hold up fine. The guns were designed to shoot NATO ammo. It's pretty accurate stuff. It did well in my 82' Hi-Power today. I shoot the Winchester NATO. I haven't tried Federal's NATO before.

 

[Ian11]

Great, I'll have to get some and try them out. I got some Fiocchi's in 9mm but I doubt they're loaded to similar levels. 9mm NATO loads actually exceed +P levels? No?

 

[WonderNine]

No, not really, kinda like a mild or midrange +P IMO. I've shot thousands of them and they definately have more snap and noise than a standard run of the mill American Eagle/WC WB type load and a little more recoil. They sorta feel like Blazers, but I think the NATO's are a little hotter than that. I believe they are advertised at 400ft. lbs sometimes, but Winchester's Law Enforcement catalog listed them at 383ft. lbs. I would assume the Federals are almost identical.

Less than alot of the +P's and certainly less than the Ranger T 127gr.s +P+ at 460ft.lbs. I think you get much higher than the Ranger's and you start having reliability problems like FTF's because the slide is moving too fast which screws up the gun's timing. I had this problem with several guns with the nuttily loaded Hirtinbergers. That stuff is definately subgun ammo. And the primers suck.

 

[Shaughn Leayme]

Canadian NATO ball is loaded to +P+ levels I believe and are probably at the upper range of the NATO specs, basically sub machine gun loads.

I had some IVI ball and I chronographed it and with a 124 grain bullet I got a 1250 fps average from a BHP with some as high as 1320 fps and according to a smith of my acquaintence they were at a match (IPSC) and they were chronographing loads and some IVI ball made major (165 power level) in a Berretta.

I usually use full power loads for practice, since everything save for the bullet design is the same, the recoil, POA and loading all stay the same and unless you actually looked at the bullet you wouldn't know the difference.

 

[stevelyn]

My practice loads and defense loads are always from the same manufacturer. My defense loads for all of my pistols are Speer Gold Dots, practice ammo is CCI Blazer.
If I were to carry another premium defense load, my practice stuff would be hardball of the same brand.

 

[T.Stahl]

Defensive load: Federal 124gr EFMJ
Practice load: IMI 124gr FMJ
Competition load: Magtech 95gr JSP

The Federal and IMI are comparable in recoil and out of my 9mm they have the same POI. The Magtech shoots softer and groups tighter (and due to its short OAL sometimes causes feed jams).

 

[tbeb]

I practice with a 230 gr. reload which has the same velocity as my 230 gr. carry load.

 

[tlhelmer]

I practice with Winchester Value paks mostly.

 

[STEVE M]

I reload my practice ammo to match my carry ammo. It's not just the

recoil that will change with different loads, you point of aim/point of impact

could change if your loads are different. Out of a quality firearm I'm not to

worried about the 'wear and tear' factor.

 

[1911Tuner]

Pracitice/Defense

On the rare occasions that I use factory ammo for practive, it's the
same as my carry ammo...PMC 45A Hardball. Other paracice ammo
is equivalent in terms of energy/velocity, and loaded with home-cast
230-grain round-nose.

Hardball for defense? Not the best choice, but not a bad one either.
Nothing much to be said against hardball if a prosecutor or civil trial
lawyer is the type to try to hang me on "Super-Killer Hollowpoints"
that will tear a man nearly in half and knock him for a flip. Why choose
hardball? Well, Your Honor...The stuff was cheap, and I like to practice
a lot so I won't miss the perp and hit any innocent bystanders.

Overpenetrative? Sure...So is Hydra-Shok if the cavity gets plugged with
shirt material...which they do about half the time, and when they
fail to expand, will usually out-penetrate hardball due to the higher
velocity.

Light, fast bullets? Re-read the "Killer-Diller" ammo part, and consider
how such lethal monikers like Hydra-Shok...Golden Saber...even
Plus-P would strike your average jury comprised of Soccer Moms and
businessmen who either never owned a gun or what they know about
guns comes from Hollywood or the A&E channel, and the spin that those
mediums often put on "Gun Violence."

I had a girlfriend years ago. Her father, after watching "Platoon" stated flatly that all the guys who served in the 'Nam stayed doped up and drunk and murdered women and children for fun. He didn't know at the time that
I was one of those guys. After setting him straight, his daughter took exception to the way that I spoke to her father, and that chapter was
closed shortly thereafter. Power thing, spin.

Bottom line is that we pays our money and rolls the dice. Just my
nickel's worth...

Tuner

 

[Preacherman]

Well, I voted "something softer", but not in the same caliber! My carry guns are usually Glocks in .40 S&W or 357 SIG. I do most of my practice with Glocks in 9mm. This is simply because 9mm ammo is so cheap - much more so than my "carry" calibers, and virtually as cheap as reloading. I go through several thousand rounds of 9mm every year, but only a couple of hundred in my carry calibers. A typical range session will be 100-200 rounds of 9mm, followed by a mag or two of my carry loads to ensure that I'm used to the recoil and point-of-impact. Since my training guns are identical in sights, trigger, grip angle, etc. to my carry weapons, I reckon the training carries over quite satisfactorily.

 

[Dave T]

I handload to duplicate the bullet weight, velocity and point of impact of the factory ammo we (wife, older sister and myself) carry in our 1911s.

 

[Dobe]

I load my 1911 with hardball for both. The .45 ACP is not a great penetrator anyway. I am of the firm oppinon that the 230 RN is an ample self-defense round. It is also cheap to shoot...Winchester Value Pack from WalMart.

 

[Al Thompson]

While I'm not a fan of hardball in .45, I do note that it's recommended by the ACLU. Back in the '70's when hollowpoints were starting to be issued to police, the ACLU decided that the .45 w/FMJ was a more humane round. YMMV

Second the notion of at least checking the POI/POA between your practice ammo and carry ammo.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Winchester 9mm 115 gr std pressure ball load = Winchester 115 gr Silvertip load. (though the slivertips do seem a bit faster on paper POI is the same.

Remington/UMC 230 gr is about as hot as Federal 230 gr Hydrashocks.

 

[10-Ring]

For the most part, I shoot standard pressure ammo for practice so softer ammo isn't an issue.

 

[foghornl]

In my .45ACP, I use 230-Gr ball for practice of whatever brand I can find for the least $$. My HD load is the Rem Golden Sabre. I bought several boxes of Golden Sabre that were marked "Government Specification".

So, if I ever find myself in the situation of being harrased by an idiot DA, will have my lawyer whip out the .Guv-Spec boxes. End of discussion from idiot DA.

 

[themic]

defense load is S&B JHP 115 gr in 9mm, practice is often S&B FMJ 115 gr in 9mm. weight and charge are otherwise the same.

for my 1911, it's a pair of CCI Blazer JHP 230gr (the "flying ashtray"), Blazer FMJ 230gr. same concept.

so, i guess my practice isn't necessarily softer, but I don't use +P for my carry either.

 

[Archie]

My defensive carry guns are

either 45 ACP, 38 Special or .357 Magnum in a M27 revolver.

The "duty" ammo in the 45 is 230 grain Hydra-Shok. To make the gun work right, I load a hardball equivilent for practise. Since 45 is not a high pressure, gun beating load to begin with, there's no reason to load it down. Besides, it has to be within certain pressure limits or the gun don't work.

38 Special uses a 158 SWCHP at normal pressures. (Not a plus P, contrary to popular belief.) So I load a 158 LSWC for practise. Shoots about the same.

357 Magnum takes 145 grain WW Silvertips. Just in case I meet a werewolf. (Was wolf.) I load a similar load. That N frame isn't bothered by heavy loads.

For plinking or targeting, I load some lighter loads. I shoot a lot of wadcutters from the 38 and 357.

In my mind, the only reason to down load is to protect the gun. I would not shoot a lot of heavy full loads in a J or K frame Smith. Super 38 is a bit stiff for constant full load use. You get the idea.

 

[denfoote]

How about equal???

Practice: Winchester White Box 230 or 115 gr FMJ.
Carry: WWB 230/115gr JHP.

 

[Hal]

True story - -

*My wife setup a bank account which she referred to as "The dog's bank account". What she did was deposit rebate checks and slush money to an account, and used the money to buy toys and treats for the dog with it. (We're talkin' $100.00 worth of dried pig ears at a crack here - - Great Danes go through a LOT of toys/treats )

Anyhow, I was buying a new car (Honda Accord) and we needed to put some money down along with the trade in to get the payment down to $200.00 a month. The salesman asked how much cash we wanted to put down, and I'm wondering the same thing, since we were quite a ways away from 200 a month. She pipes up and asks how much we can put on a credit card ($3K), and how much short we'd be after that (~ $5K).

"No problem, I'll just use the dog's account" says she!
Now, I'm wondering a few things @ this point, so I ask her, "Just what in- the-hell street corner have you been working that you can come up with 8 grand like that",,,and "ya want company working that corner?!"

Anyway, the point here is that the devil is always in the details. Take care of the details and the small stuff, and it pretty much always eliminates the large stuff. I usually handload a 230 gr cast lead in .45acp that duplicates as near as I can the feel of the 230 gr Hydra Shok. Surprises are all well and fine for some things, but not for SD.

* She set this up in maybe,,'90 or '91, and it was Spring of 2000 or so when this took place,,, may 9 - 10 years worth of slush funds.