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Practice only with carry gun?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by breakingcontact, Feb 7, 2013.

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  1. Airbrush Artist

    Airbrush Artist member

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    I knew a friend who practied Playing Ping Pong with a Coke Bottle ,He could not be beat until ya give him a Flat Ping Pong paddle.to play with ,Nuff said ..true story..If You want to get better at something Practice with what You use.. I have played a guitar since I was 11 years old hand Me a Banjo or Mandolin. ...I can't play a note
     
  2. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    The other avenue would be to make a larger gun your regular carry.

    I have carried a Glock 19, M&P9 FS and a SIG 220 as both CCW and IDPA guns. It is just a matter of a good holster and belt and paying a little attention to how I dress...of course, I'm not in Austin either
     
  3. breakingcontact

    breakingcontact Member

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    I may eventually move to a compact for EDC. Right now I'm just focusing on carrying consistently and that is easier to do with the smaller gun. Not going to change gun I carry to better at IDPA if it causes me to carry less.

    Definitely get the advantages of a compact/full size carry gun though, may get there eventually.
     
  4. CZguy

    CZguy Member

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    As soon as they pass open carry in my state, I'll definitely carry a full size service pistol.

    But as to the original topic. I've met many people at my local range who ask the same question.

    I look at it kind of like trying to play golf with one club. There are are many different tools that all do a similar, and yet different job. I shoot several different types of firearms and I always finish up a range session putting a couple of magazines through my daily carry gun.

    Personally I can remember to use a clutch when driving my truck, and just put the car in drive. Even under stress. But I can understand some people getting confused. I guess that it comes down to a personal choice.
     
  5. breakingcontact

    breakingcontact Member

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    I'd argue that under normal circumstances, I could drive about any car equally as well. But have whenever I drive a friends car, although I position the seat/mirrors/steering wheel, if the situation became less than ideal, I don't see how I wouldnt react more slowly and less accurately than I would with my own car that I have a "feel" for.

    Its really subjective though. I know some guys "rotate" carry guns. To me that's a terrible idea and sounds like its more about keeping things interesting and fun than keeping things consistent. I know they would have the retort: different gun for different situation/time of year etc...

    Definitely looking to practice with what I carry. Although as mentioned previously then there's that whole home defense question. I don't see how I could grab my carry gun at home instead of a full size with a mounted flashlight.
     
  6. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Great analogy, and to continue it -- I've driven primarily stick for many years, with a fair bit of automatic thrown int. And I have absolutely slammed the (non-existent) clutch to the floor in surprise situations in automatic transmission vehicles.

    Sure, when everything's going great and I have time to address issues in a normal fashion. When pushed beyond that "normal" frame, I've seen myself apply learned reactions that aren't appropriate for the device being used.
     
  7. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    While I understand the reasoning, it really is approaching it from the less advantageous side.

    You should always carry the gun which you shoot the best with. You can make allowances for concealability, but you you need to weigh the trade offs as you shrink the size of what you decide to carry. If you standard of accuracy at speed is 2" at 7 yards with a full size gun and you can only hold 4" with a compact at the same speed, that might be acceptable. If you are going from an acceptable 2" to 8", it is much less so.

    I started carrying with a 1911, carrying IWB in a Milt Sparks Summer Special and my first compromise was going to a Commander, and then a Star PD, for less weight. As my technique improved, I found that I could get better results with a SIG 228 or Glock G19. With more practice, I could go down in size to a Kahr P9 or a Springfield EMP. I've carried smaller guns, but the compromise in accuracy at speed was just too great.

    There is also ability with different platforms. My Kahr replaced my S&W M-642 when I found I could shoot it faster and more accurately...to say nothing of it's flatter profile and the additional rounds
     
  8. breakingcontact

    breakingcontact Member

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    I agree you should carry what you shoot best. However, carrying something at all is most important. I don't see myself carrying a full sized gun. Compact perhaps. More importantly I *think* once I get what I *think* is a grip issue figured out ill be acceptably good with the Shield (accurate and fast) and have a gun I'm able to shoot well and will nearly always carry.

    Evolving tactics and such.
     
  9. splattergun

    splattergun Member

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    Train with all your guns. Period.
     
  10. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    Oh, I thought you were talking about a much smaller gun.

    The Shield is very shootable. The only thing you'd be giving up in IDPA competition would be magazine capacity. Starting with 7+1 will just mean you'll get more magazine change practice
     
  11. breakingcontact

    breakingcontact Member

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    Should have been more clear about that. Agree the Shield is very shootable, im just trying to learn to shoot it faster. Thinking about it...after this thread...although the trigger is better in my shield, its the sight picture that dropped my score w the Shield, not the trigger.

    Full size is heavier so it gets back/stays on target better. That I knew but now considering my grip, the full size simply has more to grip. Fills my hands much better.

    Cannot wait to get to the range and begin to apply what I'm learning here. Know I won't improve drastically in one session, but deductively sorting out what needs improvement should be very productive.
     
  12. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    Try blacking out the dots on the rear sight
     
  13. breakingcontact

    breakingcontact Member

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    Funny you mentioned that. I have them blacked out and painted the front florescent red/orange. I like the sight set up a lot.

    Appreciate all the help. I'm going to focus primarily on improving my grip pressure. Will post here or start a new thread after I get to the range.

    S&W M&P Shield is a wonderful gun. Look forward to shooting it as well as possible.
     
  14. Inebriated

    Inebriated Member

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    Shooting with speed and accuracy comes with practice. It's like playing guitar. You don't start out playing at speed... you play slow, and make sure you're hitting the right notes, and then you build up that speed at a rate that allows you to consistently play the correct notes.

    Same with shooting. Take it slow. Make sure that when you draw, you're getting a firing grip on the gun, and when you come up to grip with your support hand, that it's going exactly where it should. Make sure that you're putting your finger in the same spot on the trigger, every time. Make sure that you're getting a consistent sight picture, and you get that sight picture before you press the trigger. After the gun recoils, you let out until the trigger resets.

    One thing that really does help, is to get a shot timer. Set it for however many seconds you think will be a challenge, and give yourself about an 8" target. When the timer goes off, you draw and fire. When that get's easy to do within the time limit, try for two shots. When that get's easy, extend the range, or try for three shots..
     
  15. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    Question: Do Formula One drivers avoid driving street cars?
     
  16. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    No, but they don't train intensively with them either. Sort of like how you might only train for defensive shooting with your Glock or Shield or whatever, but you still might occasionally plink at tin cans with the kids and their .22s.
     
  17. Deltaboy1984

    Deltaboy1984 Member

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    90% of all my shooting is 22 OR air gun to keep cost down. So I say vote to shoot what you want.
     
  18. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Well, we certainly must make allowances that there are reasons we may not be able to shoot our carry guns predominately or to the extent that would instill in us our best mastery of those weapons.

    However, the OP asked what is "best." It's fine to say that you enjoy shooting other guns, or that .22s and airguns are cheaper. But those aren't really answers to the question of what would produce a high level of mastery with one's carry weapon.

    Of course "shoot what you want," but that isn't what the OP asked.

    Kind of like asking your doctor what foods will make you healthiest but getting the answer that pork rinds are cheaper than vegetables and ice cream is a lot of fun so you should just eat what you like.
     
  19. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    Well, they're driving their regular cars 6-7 days a week, which would certainly count as "intensive training," at least in terms of quantity, when it comes to shooting.

    Seems like there are really two separate analyses. One is whether taking rounds away from shooting a particular weapon will make running that particular weapon a little less effective. The answer to that may be yes, particularly if you're talking about running it at a very high level (as you surely are).

    The second question is whether shooting with another weapon will somehow make you worse with another. With rare exception, the answer to that is very likely "no." Just as driving their street cars does not degrade the performance of the track driving of F1 drivers, shooting something other than the carry gun seems unlikely to degrade the carry gun - unless you are now eschewing the carry gun at the range. But that's the first question, not the second.

    So if the OP's question is whether he should shoot his carry gun less, the answer is "no." (Unless it's so unpleasant to shoot that more reps makes for a flinch.) If the question is whether it's OK to ALSO shoot other guns, the answer is probably "yes."
     
  20. breakingcontact

    breakingcontact Member

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    I definitely agree its good and fun to shoot other guns. We "practice" with all of our guns. I should have said..."training" with the carry gun. I'm trying to get past practicing to training. I've been practicing. Its got me up to this level. A recreational gun enthusiast would be moderately impressed with my accuracy. But get me out there with the high level IDPA shooters and I'm a novice.

    Until I can get to the range again need to dry fire. Simulate recoil and getting back on target I suppose.
     
  21. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    Actually they don't.

    They seldom drive during the season, they usually have drivers who get them to and from the tracks...it save them from getting lost or having to park the car

    Just pointing out that this isn't a great example
     
  22. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    OK, fair enough. Let's pick other sports.

    It's not unsual for golf pros to swing weighted clubs as they practice (which are thoroughly unlike their playing clubs), to say nothing of the constant comparison they do of hitting one model or variation of one club or another. And that's a sport where tiny gradations of force and timing are required.

    Changes in kinesthetic feedback can accelerate learning.
     
  23. mikey98e

    mikey98e Member

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    I shoot weekly at my gun club and put a couple of magiznes through my 9mm carry gun before I target shoot the .22s.
    -mike
     
  24. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    I have no idea if that is true, but if so then the skill set certainly is not clearly analogous to pistol shooting.

    I'll agree to one caveat, which is that shooting a lot of DA revolver -- with its heavier, longer, trigger pull -- does wonders for my auto pistol shooting. Trigger control and sight picture are much better for the effort put in with the wheelguns.

    HOWEVER, those benefits are offset by a greatly diminished general facility with the auto, in the short term. While the trigger control is good, and my ability to see and maintain a proper sight picture is improved, my natural index, timing, draw, and lots of other facets of the shooting function are thrown completely off by using a different firearm.

    It STILL takes ~1,000 rounds of solid practice to transition back to my normal weapon and be really "ON" with that gun.

    So this is not the same thing as taking a few swings with a weighted bat before stepping up to home plate. More like playing bass guitar and then picking up a mandolin.

    It may be worth a switch as a kind of exercise regimen to improve a part of your skill set, but it isn't something you just switch seamlessly between.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2013
  25. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    Sam, I don't doubt your personal experience. But are you seriously saying that if you practice on Tuesday and shoot, 100 rounds with your game gun, then 100 with another gun, then 100 again with your game gun, you will be a worse shooter on Thursday than if you'd only shot the 200 gamer gun rounds on Tuesday?

    If so, you are a finely-tuned machine indeed. And that may be that!
     
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