Pre-1899 revolvers & concealed carry question

[orpington]

This would be a good question for Frank Ettin, as well as others who wish to chime in.

And, this is hypothetical, as I would not exactly wish to rick $10,000 + in attorney's fees to prove I am right.

But, since a pre-1899 firearm is considered an "antique", and not a firearm, could one, hypothetically, carry one of these without a concealed carry permit, as they are, technically, not carrying a firearm, but an "antique"?

Additionally, if one were traveling across several states and wanted a means of self defense, would it make more sense for them to carry an "antique" rather than a firearm, as they would be less likely to run afoul of the multitude of state laws applying to "firearms" and not "antiques"?

Again, this is hypothetical.

 

[Midwest]

Generally speaking, some states like New Jersey even antiques are considered firearms.

https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-gun-laws/new-jersey/


Edit: Additional Info
And states like Ohio with better gun laws still treat antiques as a modern firearm.

https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-gun-laws/ohio/



"Antiques and Replicas

Antique and antique replica rifles, shotguns, or handguns are treated like modern arms for possession, carrying and purchase purposes."



You have to look at the laws of each state you intend to pass through. Remember, state gun laws can be more stricter than federal.

Good luck
.

 

[rromeo]

I can't cite exact laws, but from what I have read in this forum, many states do not consider a BP revolver as a firearm unless it's loaded. It is free to sell or otherwise transfer across most state lines without an FFL, you can send them in the mail. Once it has powder, a ball, and a percussion cap, you are now dealing with a firearm, and most laws regarding a firearm will apply.
You should individually research each state you are considering. There isn't a blanket law.

 

[bainter1212]

Interesting discussion. I have an old lemon squeezer that is pre 1899. Here in CA, the state uses the Federal definition of "antique" and that is about it here. No restrictions that I know of.
However, I don't see how a cop wouldn't arrest you for it. Even if you could has it out successfully in court, you still get arrested/cited and your gun gets taken.

 

[Frank Ettin]

....But, since a pre-1899 firearm is considered an "antique", and not a firearm, could one, hypothetically, carry one of these without a concealed carry permit, as they are, technically, not carrying a firearm, but an "antique"?

Additionally, if one were traveling across several states and wanted a means of self defense, would it make more sense for them to carry an "antique" rather than a firearm, as they would be less likely to run afoul of the multitude of state laws applying to "firearms" and not "antiques"?....

It's basically wrong.

While an antique might not be subject to certain federal laws relating to the interstate transfer or shipment of a firearm, when carried loaded it will still be considered a gun or weapon under the various state laws relating to the carrying and use of firearms or weapons.

States address such matters in a variety of ways, and I'm not going to do an exhaustive state-by-state analysis of state firearm and weapon carry and use laws. But just because an antique firearm is not a firearm for the purposes of some federal interstate transfer and shipment laws, and perhaps for some state transfer laws, doesn't mean that you can carry your loaded cap-and-ball revolver concealed in Massachusetts without the necessary permit.

When discussing law one needs to be very carefully about statutory definitions. Often they have limited application.

 

[Art Eatman]

For sure, state laws vary.

The real-world situation is that your lawyer could have to try to make your case with a judge.

 

[Coyote3855]

I am not an attorney nor am I any sort of expert on firearms law so the following is just my opinion. I would not expect a law enforcement officer to know the intricacies of the law regarding pre 1899 handguns. If for whatever reason he/she determines you are carrying a firearm in violation of local or state laws, I think you would be arrested. You will need to hire a very expensive lawyer to attempt to sort out the pre 1899 issue.

Worst case scenario, if you use the pre 1899 handgun in self defense, I assume (again just my opinion) that all the laws addressing use of a lethal weapon will kick in regardless of the date of manufacture.

Attempts to work around the law often do not turn out well. I recommend you get a concealed carry permit and determine where that permit is recognized. Again, I stress this is just my opinion and should be taken as such.

 

[BSA1]

The Courts, Jails and Prisons are full of people who hypothetically committed a crime.

It is important that you understand that there are two systems of justice in America…the street and the Court.

On the street you can be arrested if the Officer believes you have committed a crime.

The second system of Justice is in the Courts, probably weeks, months or years later and many $$$$$.00.

One doesn’t have much to do with the other. If, as a LEO working the street, encounter you carrying a loaded C&B in a State that requires a permit to carry you are running a above average of seeing the inside of the Criminal Justice System up close and personal.

If you are found to be not guilty by Courts so be it. There is no penalty to the LEO for making the arrest whereas you have had considerable expense in your defense.

I sure would hate sitting in a Courtroom as my lawyer argues the that loaded C&B revolver is not capable of firing and causing great bodily harm or death.

 

[orpington]

To reiterate: this is HYPOTHETICAL!!!

I would NEVER consider doing this, even if it was deemed that I was 100% correct. I have a concealed carry license and I really don't feel like ceding hard-earned legal tender to an attorney!!!

If it was determined that my assertion was correct it could have been a way for those who travel across state lines regularly to conceal carry, such as long haul truckers.

As for myself, if I cross a state line more than twice annually, that's a lot!

 

[Frank Ettin]

This topic had run its course.