Pre-1986 Question

[Ingsoc75]

Before Hughes came into effect, could somebody take their semi-auto rifle and, if it was legal in their state, get it legally converted into a transferable FA?

 

[shotgunjoel]

Yes you could, Just like you can make an SBR or SBS now. You would just register it like any other NFA item. Domestic production of machine guns was perfectly legal, you just had to follow NFA '34.

 

[Quiet]

Before Hughes came into effect, could somebody take their semi-auto rifle and, if it was legal in their state, get it legally converted into a transferable FA?

Yes. As long as it complied with both Federal & state laws.
Needed BATFE approval prior to conversion.
In fact, that is how the majority of transferable H&K MP5s & FN FNCs came about.


FYI on foreign made MGs.
Gun Control Act of 1968 banned the importation of transferable machineguns.
Imported MGs from 1968- May 1986 are pre-dealer samples. Meaning they can only be transfered to FFL/SOT dealers and LE/Gov/Mil agencies.

However, pre-dealer samples are different from post-dealer samples in that, depending on how the FFL/SOT is set-up, a FFL/SOT dealer can keep the pre-dealer sample MG after they give up their SOT status. Whereas, a post-dealer sample MG will need to be transfered out (no exceptions) when the FFL/SOT dealer gives up their SOT status.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

It could be done on an ATF Form 1. For example, you could build a tube receiver for a Sten gun parts kit after filing to make and register the machinegun on a form 1. The registration of the FA could then be transferred on a form 4 to a new owner. Now, on a Form 1, after approval you can make and register any NFA item (except a machinegun): SBS, SBR, AOW, silencer, etc.

 

[Sam1911]

as long as it was converted by a licensed manufacturer. They would then register it and sell it back to you

As Carl points out, this was not necessary. File a Form 1 and you are the manufacturer.

It still works that way for SBRs, SBSs, AOWs, DDs, and Silencers. In fact, it is still perfectly legal to file a Form 1 for a machine gun. They just won't approve it and give you a tax stamp.

 

[Ingsoc75]

So back then, one who had the tools, the technical know how, and lived in a state where it was legal, could get their semi rifle converted to FA and the cost would of been mostly the $200 stamp and the required parts.

 

[Prince Yamato]

So back then, one who had the tools, the technical know how, and lived in a state where it was legal, could get their semi rifle converted to FA and the cost would of been mostly the $200 stamp and the required parts.

Yep. I suspect you could have made one of those full-auto adapters for a Glock for about $225 (including the cost of the tax)... le sigh...

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

If that was still in effect I have a feeling all my semi-autos would be select fire

However, pre-dealer samples are different from post-dealer samples in that, depending on how the FFL/SOT is set-up, a FFL/SOT dealer can keep the pre-dealer sample MG after they give up their SOT status. Whereas, a post-dealer sample MG will need to be transfered out (no exceptions) when the FFL/SOT dealer gives up their SOT status.

There is something I was wondering about this last night. Say a SOT has a pre-may dealer sample Uzi or something and gives up his SOT but keeps the gun. Does the gun now become transferrable on a form 4, or does it remain a dealer sample and can only be sold to other SOTs?
It seems pre 86 dealer samples are cheaper than transferrables but not by much (around $1k cheaper is about what I've seen), compared to post 86 guns.

 

[mboylan]

So back then, one who had the tools, the technical know how, and lived in a state where it was legal, could get their semi rifle converted to FA and the cost would of been mostly the $200 stamp and the required parts.

Yes, if you could get a CLEO sign off. Most would deny you. $200 in 1986 was more than $400 in today's dollars.

The NFA trust route was relatively unknown by both shooters and lawyers. Ammo was more expensive back then. It still takes money to keep a select fire gun running. I remember people spending more time fixing their MGs than shooting them.

 

[medalguy]

DoubleTapDrew, I had a FFL and SOT in my personal name back before 86. When I let the FFL go I kept all the guns since they were all registered in my own name. I'm not sure if that can still be done today but I would guess yes. However, if the license is in a business name, then the guns would have to be transferred either into your name or into another business name or trust name.

 

[Quiet]

There is something I was wondering about this last night. Say a SOT has a pre-may dealer sample Uzi or something and gives up his SOT but keeps the gun. Does the gun now become transferrable on a form 4, or does it remain a dealer sample and can only be sold to other SOTs?
It seems pre 86 dealer samples are cheaper than transferrables but not by much (around $1k cheaper is about what I've seen), compared to post 86 guns.

It retains it's pre-dealer sample status.

 

[CleverNickname]

Pre-samples owned by former SOTs who are real persons (versus corporations) used to be able to be transfered to the SOTs heirs upon his death, even if the heir was not an SOT. Sometime in the last decade or so the ATF changed regulations and now the heir must also be an SOT.