Pre-ban PARTS and the AWB

[Detritus]

Pre-ban PARTS and the AWB??

weird question but,

after thinking about my previous post on which way to go in the case of "getting an AR the year the AWB is to sunset", and browsing around the websites of Bushy and other makers. i got to wondering

I know that the BATF considers it a no-no to have a pre-ban UPPER in the same house with a post-ban rifle and no PRE-ban lower on which to fit said upper. but what is their take on say an uninstalled barrel??

in other words is it courting disaster to have a post-ban complete rifle int eh same house as a un attatched "non-neutered" threaded muzzle A2 style barrel??


just musing and since i have not studied the law etc in this regard i wanted to ask the oppinoion here.....

thank you

 

[jobu07]

I didn't even know it was illegal to have a pre-ban upper in the same house as a post ban lower. Learn something new every day though, i'll keep that in mind.

 

[Kaylee]

Of course, if you have the ATF searching your house for said parts, I'd say you have bigger problems at hand than explaining which upper went with which lower.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Based on my unlicensed, Perry Mason legal training, I don't think you need to worry too much about it. I'm sure ATF would whine about it, but it's not like you could throw in on in 5 minutes.

If you're paranoid, you could always leave it with your neighbor or a relative until September.

 

[Detritus]

I didn't even know it was illegal to have a pre-ban upper in the same house as a post ban lower. Learn something new every day though, i'll keep that in mind.

i don't know that the LAW says that doing so is illeagal, but if you do a search here and over at AR15.com (if you can stand the stink and shouting), you'll find that the ATF sure does! This is on the grounds that, the upper on an AR can be switched out in about 20-30 secounds by a SLOW moving person and that puting pre- on post- is a huge non-no.
(note this is info gleaned from 2 years of watching posts on ARs on various forums, i have not yet actually SEEN a letter from the ATF stating this. just to be clear )

so if your only lower is post-ban and you have multiple uppers, the uppers must either be ALL post ban, or stored "elsewhere" (in secure storage off the premises(sp?) or otherwise not easily acessible)

oh and just to let those who read this know, the reason this thought came to me is this. i've been looking for ways to get my wife the AR that SHE wants (as close to A1 config as possible). and the thought crossed my mind last night "well heck why don't you just buy the parts and then, when the stupid thing sunsets get em put together as a complete upper?!"

my further thinking is this even if the ban is extended, i can (instead of going to a local gunsmith or one of the High Power shooters in the area that smiths their own ARs) send all the bits off to Kurt's Kustom to have it assembled and one of his faux FSes installed, and possibly have the barrel in front of the gasblock/sight-tower milled down to A1 spec. so either way no real loss, only a little extra expense if the ban is renewed.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

i have not yet actually SEEN a letter from the ATF stating this. just to be clear

ATF has always held that having the parts to assemble an illegal weapon constitutes being in possession of that weapon, whether assembled or not.

In the following letter from ATF, they state a person owning a registered M16 and an AR-15, that has spare parts for his M16 is considered to be in possession of an unregistered machinegun.

The definition of a machinegun in section 5845(b) also includes any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person. Thus, an AR15 rifle possessed with separate M16 machinegun components can meet the definition of a machinegun, if the rifle shoots automatically when the components are installed.

The fact that a person lawfully possesses a registered NFA firearm does not grant authorization to possess additional non-registered firearms. A person who possesses a registered M16 machinegun and a semiautomatic AR15 and a separate quantity of M16 machinegun components could be in possession of two machineguns.

They also state having multiple short barreled uppers for a registered M16 and owning an AR-15 is considered as being in possession of an unregistered SBR.

Can you have several short barrel uppers (less than 16 inches) for the registered AR and still own semi-auto AR's?

The definition of a firearm in section 5845 of the NFA includes a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length. An individual possessing more than one short (less than 16 inches) barreled upper receiver for a registered AR15 machinegun along with one or more semiautomatic AR15 rifles would have under their possession of control an unregistered short barreled rifle, a violation of the NFA.

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_letter90.txt

And they have stated the disassembled parts needed to assemble an assault weapon constitute an assault weapon.

We have also determined that a semiautomatic assault weapon in knockdown (unassembled) condition consisting of a receiver and all parts needed to assemble a complete semiautomatic assault weapon are subject to regulation if the parts are segregated or packaged together and held by a person as the parts for the assembly of a particular firearm.

Is it September yet?

 

[Detritus]

thanks, guess i'll just buy a post-ban rifle or a Lower (or two) then after september buy the new uppers i really want.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Note that they always say under your control. While you cannot possess postban lowers with preban uppers, nothing prevents you from having in your control postban lowers and your wife/girlfriend having in her control preban uppers. Buy a little metal storage box or locking file cabinet and let her store her preban upper inside. If you don't have a key, you don't have control and if you don't have control, ATF cannot claim you are in possession of an illegal firearm.

 

[GigaBuist]

Interesting discussion. I wasn't aware that the BATFE cared about such things. It was always my assumption that they actually HAD to be assembled to be a problem in accordance with the law. Granted, the law may differ from BATFE doctrine but BATFE doctrine is all that really matters in this day and age.

It's good to know that the members of THR are so well versed in such things. In the untold hours I've spent looking at laws concerning AR-15 style weapons I was unaware that I couldn't have the seperated pieces (legally obtained) in my possession at the same time.

I feel much safer tonight in knowing that a law abiding, honest, red-blooded American citizen has been warned of their evil desires before a criminal act could occur. I'm sure it's safe to assume that because this is the law that nobody with less than honorable intentions would ever commit the horrid act of having pre-ban style AR-15 upper in the same locale as a pre-ban AR-15 lower. I mean, it's the LAW!

Sorry for the sarcasm and such... but it's just grating my behind lately that with all the hooplah about the AWB ban that it's even possible to assume that legal and honest citizens should be hindered with such things. I am honestly glad that this thread came up because I've considered buying a new "evil" upper for my AR a few times in anticipation of the AWB's sunset.