Pre-lock vs Lock Smith & Wessons
- Thread starter elktrout
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Rockrivr1
Member
I'm a huge S&W revolver fan and as such I've been slowly building up a collection. I consider older S&Ws collector items while newer ones I consider tools for fun at the range. I shoot them all equally and I've luckily not had a problem with any of my pre and post lock models. I always hear people talk about how the lock caused problems with a particular revolver. When I press the person telling the story I always get the same answer that it happened to a friend. Never met anyone that it actually happened to. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I don't think it's as particularly wide spread as the rumors mill has it. Either way having the lock would not stop me from buying a model I want.
People on this forum have witnessed IL failure.
NeroM
Member
Currently own an M10 and M25 with MIM and lock. Have previously posted the virtues of these two; in my view their fit, function and accuracy are as good as any of the historic storied models. If I am truly objective, hard to tell the difference between old and new (grips differences aside). Completely ignore the lock, would rather not have it - has not been a problem - except philosophical.
If I stumble on to an M36 with a lock, not over priced and in good shape - going to get it.
If I stumble on to an M36 with a lock, not over priced and in good shape - going to get it.
sparkyv
Member
I too, have both, and I don't favor one type vs. the other. Both types shoot very well and, I've never had to send any back to the Mothership; I've been able to rectify any issue on my own with great satisfaction (thank you Mr. Kuhnhausen). I generally shy away from the two-piece bbls because they can't be readily gunsmithed. The MIM parts don't bother me, but I've noticed that they are more easily prone to corrosion. This is the only comment or concern I have with the hillary lock:
This is how I deal with the lock:
I've noticed that. Funny how they do that, isn't it?
You have TWO? Awesome!
This is how I deal with the lock:
I've noticed that. Funny how they do that, isn't it?
You have TWO? Awesome!
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Rockrivr1
Member
As I said, I don't doubt it happened to somebody. I've just never met anyone who had it happen to them. I think it happened and the rumor mill picked it up and blew it into "all locks on S&Ws fail" type of situation. Similar with your post, you've heard/read that it happened to somebody. Not that you've seen it yourself.
Ethan Verity
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Speaking of that, I have a comparison pic of the two. Model 29-2 on the left with original factory target grips, and a Model 29-10 with OEM Altamont grips on the right.
My experience was much the opposite, I find the new thin grips to be exceptionally uncomfortable to shoot 44 Mag with, whereas the vintage target grips allow me to shoot all day long comfortably.
.455_Hunter
Member
Did you see my post #62?
I suppose if you have a bigger hand that would be the case.
If I was offered a bowl of 1,000 jelly beans and knew that one would kill me, I wouldn't take any.
aaaaa
Member
Found the article I referenced above:
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/smith-and-wesson-internal-lock/
redcon1
member
The grips on my newer Model 29 were incredibly painful. I took them off and put them on my 327 Nightguard and took the rubber grips off the Nightguard and put them on the 29 and life was much improved. That sharp 90° edge by the thumb literally caused bleeding bad enough that I had to stop and render first aid and I was done shooting for the day. I was going to sand them down but I figured I'd ruin them so I just switched them out.
jertex
Member
I don't own a Smith & Wesson with a lock but I own three pre-lock Smiths: a 547, 29-2, & a model 63, all of which are excellent shooters. The current guns are unappealing to me, which is a big part of the equation when I purchase a revolver. I enjoy the aesthetics of a well-engineered revolver and the lock looks like a defect on an otherwise attractive firearm. It's like an ink spot on the pocket of a fine dress shirt. It's hard to stop looking at it and it detracts from the overall appearance.
As far as sleeved barrels, all I can say is that my Dan Wessons with sleeved barrels are fantastic shooters with superb accuracy. The difference here is that the Dan Wessons were designed for barrel sleeves from the beginning for the interchangeable barrel system, and they were built like tanks. I can shoot loads out of my model 744 that I wouldn't dare to shoot out of my 29-2.
As far as sleeved barrels, all I can say is that my Dan Wessons with sleeved barrels are fantastic shooters with superb accuracy. The difference here is that the Dan Wessons were designed for barrel sleeves from the beginning for the interchangeable barrel system, and they were built like tanks. I can shoot loads out of my model 744 that I wouldn't dare to shoot out of my 29-2.
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1. Not all “older Smiths” are positive. I am (only) age 60, but personally experienced the junk that Bangor Punta-era S&W could be. My first S&W revolver purchase was a new Model 60, and I did not yet know how to probably check a revolver for proper fit. I now know that the cylinder assembly was not properly aligned; it should NEVER that passed QC. My next two were order together, when I was a police academy cadet, a 4” 686, and a 2.5” 66. I did not have the privilege of hand-selecting, when they arrived; each of these had my name on it, period. The 686 was a barrel with threads that were not properly “timed,” which meant the the front sight was tilted significantly away from vertical. The academy armorer adjust my rear sight ridiculously far, to match the tilted front, then deemed it acceptable, so I endured this, for the next few months, then traded this one away, after graduation and swearing-in. Notably, none of these had the glorious trigger pulls that are often attributed to “older Smiths.”
Knowing that I would have to hand-select my revolvers, to get good ones, I went to a local gun store, and bought well-fitted, new Models 581 and 629. Everything lined-up right, everything fitted well, and, quite decent trigger pulls. So, I ended up having bought five new Bangor Punta S&W revolvers, and the only good ones were the two that I hand-picked. (I can no longer recall how many samples, I had to handle, to get the two good ones.)
Notably, one area of poor fit, that was all too common, is the crane-to-frame fit. Depressingly common. This is one thing that drove me to Ruger revolvers. The GP100 and SP101 became “my” weapon system, and, I have added a couple of Speed Sixes, and a Security Six.
2. Yes, the is a “possibility” that firing a keyhole S&W revolver could activate the lock. It has happened, to some folks. At least one article named one such shooter, named in one of Massad Ayoob’s articles. The shooter was well-known in the shooting community, and is now deceased. IIRC, the revolvers were .44 Magnums.
3. I am unaware of the sleeved barrels being a problem. My only such guns have been fired minimally, with target wadcutters, as they are J-snub Airlites, which are painful for my aging hands.
Rockrivr1
Member
I really don't see it that way. I literally have thousands of rounds through S&Ws with the lock and have not had any hiccups. I trust them.
Ethan Verity
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I noticed that as well, I had to add a shim to mine to correct some excessive endshake as a result. I'm sure it would have shot loose in short order had I not addressed that up front.
CoalTrain49
Member
I have a 625 with a lock. At the time I bought it (about 15 years ago) I wasn't aware of the hate that is spewed on the internet every time the subject comes up. I still have it and shoot the he!! out of it. Has maybe 5K rounds through it. I don't clean it very often either. It usually has some powder smudges on the muzzle. I've never had a single problem with the lock. I would have to look for the key. I'm pretty sure I have one someplace.
Having said that I only buy older Smiths now. 1985 is about my cut-off for any new purchases. The quality seems much better then anything built after 1985. I have about 5 older Smiths so I can compare.
The lock hate is ridiculous but if you want to cull those that's your call.
Having said that I only buy older Smiths now. 1985 is about my cut-off for any new purchases. The quality seems much better then anything built after 1985. I have about 5 older Smiths so I can compare.
The lock hate is ridiculous but if you want to cull those that's your call.
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I was gonna say if there was a way to test the jelly beans for poison what's the problem.
If you're not using them for SD I guess it doesn't matter.
When I think of a quality older S&W I think of the S series, pre-Bangor Punta ones.
SwampWolf
Member
I'd do it for five bucks and another beer.
When I got interested in revolvers it was too late for pre-lock purchases. i was determined to own a 19, 66 & 686. Got all three with locks and the K frames have 2 piece barrels. They are a sweet collection of shooters with thousands of rounds down range. Maybe one day someone will make a nice blanking plate to replace the lock. I’ve seen the key hole filler blank online but I would need the lock flag to be filled too for my eyes sake. I trust my Glock 19 to carry on my belt with no lock. Our house ready gun is a Beretta M9 with safety delete / decocker only.
There were no used guns for sale?
Which proves what?
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