Pre-purchase jitters

[Rayna]

I'm probably going to buy a Sig p238 in the next day or two. I've shot one at the range and I really liked it. But its a lot of money, all at once, and it would be the second handgun I've purchased in the last six months. The first one didn't work out so well, so I'm a little nervous.

The first was a .38 special, which I picked out myself. I'd shot .38's a little, and was very comfortable with revolvers, much more so than with semi autos. Didn't love the recoil, but the magic gun that's concealable on a small framed woman, kicks like a .22 and leaves holes like a ,45 doesn't exist.

It's tearing up my wrists, though. If I run 25 rounds through it, they'll hurt for days and it's getting progressively worse. So I have to do something else. I thought about a smaller caliber revolver, but the smaller calibers available for revolvers just seem too small to me, and no one carries them around here, so I can't even hold one before I buy, much less shoot one.

I was gonna go for a glock 42 or 43. Went to the range to try them and fell in love with the p238 instead. I'd actually like the 9mm version but figure I need to go with the softer shooting one. I'll be able to practice more, get better.

My reservations:
1. Is .380 enough? Most people seem to think so, but one gun store guy did try to talk me out of it pretty seriously.
2. Takedown. I've watched the videos on YouTube. Its seems doable. I figure I can learn most things. I am not , however, particularly mechanically inclined. The serious stuff I'd leave to a smith, but I should be able to do basic cleaning and maintenance, right?
3. Cocked and locked carry. Something in me goes "eek" when I think of carrying with the hammer back, safety or no. This is really the big one. Like everything, there are people who seem to know what they're talking about on both sides. But I also have serious reservations about carrying glock style guns with no external safety and a fairly light (compared to my DAO revolver) trigger pull. And as I've gotten more experienced with shooting striker fired guns, those reservations have lessened. I'm completely new to 1911 style guns, so I figure as I get familiar with the gun I'll become more comfortable with the idea of condition 1 carry as well.

I don't plan to actually carry the p238 until I am very comfortable and proficient with the controls. Even if I get one this week, I foresee it being a month or more before I would carry it for self-defense.

I guess I just want people's thoughts on whether this gun is a screamingly bad choice for me, given what I've written.

 

[wally]

The .380ACP is in the same ballpark as non +P .38Special loads power (bullet energy) wise. The P238 is about the same size and weight as a J-frame. Thus I'm not so sure it will be all that much easier on your hand for extended shooting sessions, although the moving parts of the semi auto do soak up some of the recoil energy and .380 bullets tend to be lighter than .38Special bullets.

If you like revolvers, before committing to the P238 try a larger all steel revolver in .38Special (or .357Mag in which you can shoot .38Special). You can practice with the big gun to be easier on your hand and carry the little one and have the same operation and manual of arms for both.

 

[Rayna]

There is a big difference for me in the the recoil and its aftereffects from any .380 or 9mm semiauto I've tried and .38's. The p238, in particular, was soft shooting compared to other 380s i tried.

I think I've pretty much given up on my 38, honestly. I changed the grips, I've tried a variety of ammo, I've improved my grip. All of it helped but not enough. Buying a 2nd training gun seems like throwing good money after bad. Part of the purchase of a SIG instead of a cheaper gun is also predicated on being able to sell my revolver after I'm confident with the automatic. Some of the purchase price could be recouped, though not immediately. If I buy a 357 that's larger, I might enjoy shooting it more, but I'd still have to keep the .38 and have an expensive "extra" gun.

 

[Theohazard]

Welcome to THR!

Is .380 enough? Most people seem to think so, but one gun store guy did try to talk me out of it pretty seriously.

All defensive handgun calibers are relatively weak and can easily fail to stop someone if the rounds aren’t put in the right place. Yes, .380 is a little less effective than the standard duty-level calibers (9mm, .40, and .45), but with modern hollow-point design a .380 is more than capable of stopping someone if you place your shots well.

My EDC is a Glock 42. Sure, I have a Glock 19 that I’d rather have in a gunfight, but my Glock 42 is so much easier to carry; I carry it everywhere I’m legally allowed to carry (which is pretty much anywhere I go). I’d much rather have a .380 on me than a more powerful gun I left at home.

Takedown

Once you’ve done it a few times it will be easy. It’s not that hard once you know how.

Cocked and locked carry. Something in me goes "eek" when I think of carrying with the hammer back, safety or no. This is really the big one. Like everything, there are people who seem to know what they're talking about on both sides

The only way you should carry a gun like the P238 is cocked and locked (Condition 1). The other ways to carry it are either unsafe or less effective. Or both.

Condition 2 (round in the chamber, uncocked) is unsafe because you have to pull the trigger with a loaded chamber in order to decock the gun and get it into Condition 2. And cocking the hammer on the draw is harder than simply taking the safety off. Condition 3 (no round in the chamber) is a bad idea because it requires two hands and a little extra time to draw the gun, rack the slide, and fire.

Carrying the P238 in Condition 1 is perfectly safe. In order for the gun to accidentally fire you’d have to take the safety off and then pull the trigger.

 

[Blkhrt13]

When I carried a 1911 45. The grand daddy to the sig you speak of I carried it safety off hammer down. I was comfortable with it that way. I rarely without extreme need for speed carried it in condition one. It’s about what works for you.

As far as the efficacy of 380 auto I don’t have one but mostly because I didn’t want another caliber to keep up with. I used to carry a 25 auto so a 380 is enough gun in my book. Not a single hand gun can garuntee a one shot stop every time. No one wants to be shot by anything. So shoot what is comfortable and repeat shots can be made.

Knowing you are more settled into revolvers, have you looked at a 32 smith and Wesson long? In there common loading they are a little weak. But buffalo bore makes an adequate self defense ammo loading. It’s soft on the hand and in a jframe it holds 6. I get that you might not be able to find one as easy as the 938 though. I bought mine for 400 from a friend in mint condition. I paid too much but I did it to help her out and it’s also sentimental because it was her grandfathers gun. It was mint condition in the box. So I don’t think it was that bad paying full book price.

 

[Blkhrt13]

https://americanhandgunner.com/the-32-sw-long-38-sw/

Sorry I don’t want to be the one pushing another gun option but...

 

[Spats McGee]

Welcome to THR!

. . . . the magic gun that's concealable on a small framed woman, kicks like a .22 and leaves holes like a ,45 doesn't exist.

No, it does not. I've been looking for that same pistol for Mrs. McGee for years now.

Is .380 enough? Most people seem to think so, but one gun store guy did try to talk me out of it pretty seriously.

The saying that "the .22 that you will carry beats the .45 that you leave in the safe" has some truth to it. I'm not a huge fan of the .380, but it's better than a sharp stick.

I figure I can learn most things. I am not , however, particularly mechanically inclined. The serious stuff I'd leave to a smith, but I should be able to do basic cleaning and maintenance, right?

Yes, you should be able to do those. Have you considered the Smith and Wesson 380 Shield E-Z? If it's anything like the Shield, and the online video makes it look like it is, takedown is easy.

I also have serious reservations about carrying glock style guns with no external safety and a fairly light (compared to my DAO revolver) trigger pull. And as I've gotten more experienced with shooting striker fired guns, those reservations have lessened.

This is another item that makes me think the S&W 380 Shield might be a good choice for you. It has a grip safety.

 

[Rayna]

I tried the Shield in 9mm. I wanted to like it, in part because of the safety. I liked the feel of it in my hand better than the Glock 43. But when I shot it, it was very meh. I was surprised to find I preferred the glocks. They and the SIG's (p238 and p938) were much better as far as the ergonomics of operating the mag release and (on the sigs) safety levers. And the blocks were fine to shoot, reliable, and perfectly serviceable, but the SIG's were enjoyable.
Edit: oops, GLOCKS, not blocks. But they are kind of blocky.

 

[WrongHanded]

What model is the .38 revolver you have?

 

[Rayna]

Its a Smith and Wesson 642.

 

[WrongHanded]

Its a Smith and Wesson 642.

A pretty lightweight .38 special, which I'd guess is why you bought it. No doubt you'd have less of an issue with something heavier, but at the obvious cost of having to carry a heavier gun.

I have no experience with the P238 but do own several Sigs and really like them (the P239 in particular). I too have reservations about carrying a cocked and locked single action. And I'd prefer a little more power than a .380. Having said that, both work for lots of people and there's no reason that combination can't work for you. But perhaps you need to do a little more looking around before you make your final decision. At the end of the day, it'll be your gun, so others people's opinions don't matter nearly as much as how you feel about your choice.

 

[Rayna]

Yeah, its lightweight. Someone recently told me its an air weight, even tho it's not stamped on the frame. And the weight matches air weight models. If it had been stamped, I would have bought something else, as I had read reviews of air weights and their recoil and planned to avoid them.

But that's why I am limiting my options to what I can try in person this time round. Bought it without shooting it first. I can say this, it's been a learning experience.

 

[Blkhrt13]

But that's why I am limiting my options to what I can try in person this time round. Bought it without shooting it first. I can say this, it's been a learning experience.

A wise notion. I prefer to hold them
First myself because so many of even the “reputable brands” seem to have an oops lately and flub on quality.

Clearly the aluminum frame makes it kick way more.

 

[rsrocket1]

I'd recommend you not get the Sig and that you keep the 642. Get a Ruger GP100 in 357 Magnum or a used Ruger Security/Service/Speed Six in .357 Magnum. For range shooting, use it and shoot the daylights out of it with cheap WWB or some other 38 special ammo (not +P ammo). At the end of the session, shoot a couple of cylinders through the 642.

Yes the GP100 is a big heavy gun, but it will recoil like a .22 with 125-158g 38 special ammo rated at about 700 fps. You get used to shooting a double action trigger and also shoot single action if you want to improve your bullseye accuracy. The important thing is to shoot regularly and not get recoil shy. In a real life or death situation, you aren't going to shoot 25 rounds through it so you won't have to worry about tearing up your wrists but you will not be as prepared as you would be if you only shot 25 rounds in a range session only once a month or two. The big heavy Ruger will not tear your hands up even with 50 rounds especially if you get some rubber grips for it.

I can shoot 350 rounds of 40 S&W through my M&P40 in a session and not bat an eyelash, but 50 rounds with my 9mm Shield is not a pleasant experience. However, like I said, I doubt that I will shoot 50 rounds in a SD situation, nor will I care if I shoot 2" at 10 yards. Probably hitting an 8-1/2'x11" sheet at that distance without panicking will be good enough.

I've seen too many women (and some men) at gun stores looking for a small gun for self defense knowing that this will be their only gun. Small guns kick big and are not pleasant to shoot lots of rounds through. If you already know how to shoot a lot and get a small gun in addition to all the other guns you already have, then it's simply a matter of choice.

 

[Hokkmike]

I owned a P-238 and dumped it in favor of a G-42. The SIG was very hard to field strip. It was a major aggravation for me. It took me sometimes 20-30 minutes to strip.The GLOCK comes apart in under 5 seconds. When reassembling the SIG great care must be taken in tucking the ejection rod under the slide. Not enough push enough and it won't fit, push too hard and you damage the gun. You are also warned severely not to engage the safety lever while the pistol is in component parts. Do it and a factory repair is required. I did not like carrying the P-238 cocked and locked in my front pocket so I kept the chamber empty. To be honest I still do that with my G-42 but hope to change with the use of my new Alabama holster. The P-238 is a handsome, accurate, and reliable pistol. For the most part it is well made. It is heavy enough that recoil is not a problem. It is just that side by side I am preferring the GLOCK. If caliber is a question then you may want to consider the P-365 in 9mm. I like the .380 but recognize it as marginal. I am a pocket carrier so it is THE choice for me. Use good ammo like SIG SAUER ELITE in the .380 and I think you are fine.

 

[Tallball]

I have handguns in all of the common calibers. I carry a 380 sometimes. It seems to me like a strong enough caliber for self defense.

I have a pistol similar to the Sig and it is a very good shooter. I've never carried it before, but I could probably get used to it.

My wife prefers a revolver but has damaged wrists. She has a 32 magnum revolver for self defense. It's theoretically more effective than a 380, and the recoil is mild.

 

[huntsman]

I carry a .380 daily without any qualms about the caliber, your choice in guns on the other hand would not be my choice.

When it comes to buying new guns we all pays our money and takes our chances, that’s why there’s a used gun market

 

[Rayna]

I owned a P-238 and dumped it in favor of a G-42. The SIG was very hard to field strip. It was a major aggravation for me. It took me sometimes 20-30 minutes to strip.The GLOCK comes apart in under 5 seconds. When reassembling the SIG great care must be taken in tucking the ejection rod under the slide. Not enough push enough and it won't fit, push too hard and you damage the gun. You are also warned severely not to engage the safety lever while the pistol is in component parts. Do it and a factory repair is required. I did not like carrying the P-238 cocked and locked in my front pocket so I kept the chamber empty. To be honest I still do that with my G-42 but hope to change with the use of my new Alabama holster. The P-238 is a handsome, accurate, and reliable pistol. For the most part it is well made. It is heavy enough that recoil is not a problem. It is just that side by side I am preferring the GLOCK. If caliber is a question then you may want to consider the P-365 in 9mm. I like the .380 but recognize it as marginal. I am a pocket carrier so it is THE choice for me. Use good ammo like SIG SAUER ELITE in the .380 and I think you are fine.

Well, pocket carry is out of the question for me. I'm lucky to fit a ChapStick in some of my pockets. ☺ I'll definitely have to use some kind of iwb holster or belly band. I did shoot the p238 and glock 42 side by side, and definitely prefer the trigger and feel of the p238. But I didn't field strip either of them.

 

[Hokkmike]

Well, pocket carry is out of the question for me. I'm lucky to fit a ChapStick in some of my pockets. ☺ I'll definitely have to use some kind of iwb holster or belly band. I did shoot the p238 and glock 42 side by side, and definitely prefer the trigger and feel of the p238. But I didn't field strip either of them.

They are both well made guns. I don't think carrying a P-238 in a holster (they give you one with the gun) would bother me as much as putting it in my pocket. You should try breaking one down, a 938 is the same, and see how that goes for you.

 

[bersaguy]

Welcome! As to your list
1) .380 is a capable round. It's not ideal, but neither is getting into a gunfight. It's what I carry on a daily basis because when deployed correctly it is a fight stopper...no doubt
2) Take down I believe is similar to the 1911, which is more fiddly than, say a Glock, but certainly doable.
3) Cocked and Locked carry. It seems counterintuitive, but it is the safe way to carry that weapon. With time and experience, carrying a loaded weapon becomes less daunting.

My 1st pistol was a bersa 380cc. More or less a Walther clone. I began with carrying with the chamber empty, safety on. After seeing that the safety never accidentally got bumped off, I carried chamber loaded, safety on. That was a double action/single action gun, with a rather long da pull, so after a while I carried loaded, safety off.
The safety on that sig, much like a 1911 is very natural to use.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

But its a lot of money, all at once

If you're not sure if you can afford it, you can't.
Save your money until your sure of what you want and comfortable about spending the money.

 

[Rayna]

I have handguns in all of the common calibers. I carry a 380 sometimes. It seems to me like a strong enough caliber for self defense.

I have a pistol similar to the Sig and it is a very good shooter. I've never carried it before, but I could probably get used to it.

My wife prefers a revolver but has damaged wrists. She has a 32 magnum revolver for self defense. It's theoretically more effective than a 380, and the recoil is mild.

And here is the problem with the internet and felt recoil. ☺ I read a review recently that said 32 magnum had atrocious recoil. But no one I know has any of those oddball calibers for me to try out, and the range didn't have any to rent.

And...I also kind of want an automatic. I figure a good part of why I'm more comfortable with revolvers is because that's what I shot growing up. My dad has very retro taste in firearms. If I have an automatic to practice with I will probably become comfortable with them too. My siblings managed.

 

[Doublehelix]

I carry a P938 daily, and have no problems with the Condition 1 carry, but then again most of my guns are hammer-fired SAO so I am familiar with the operation. It will take some training to get used to having to disengage the safety when you need to use it, but it is well worth the effort IMHO.

A good friend of mine carries a P238 in .380, and she loves hers. I have shot her P238 and my P938 side-by-side, and there is some difference, but not as much as you would think.

There are some great rounds in .380 that are pretty lethal, Federal HST is what I use in my 9mm, and they make a great .380 round as well. I highly recommend them.

Take down is not that difficult. I am used to taking down 1911s, so it was easy for me, but it takes 3-4 times to get the hang of it before it feels comfortable. Just struggle through it once or twice, and you will be fine, although you may invent a few cuss words before you are done!!! (Just kidding, it is not that bad, but it is not like taking down a striker-fired plastic gun, that is for sure!)

Overall, I think the P238 is a great choice for you based on what you have told us. SIG is a great company, and they really stand behind their products.

My P938 is 100% reliable, and honestly, very accurate for such a small gun. I use the 7-round extended mags that have the pinky extension so I can get better hold of the grip, and I replaced the stock grips with the rubberized Hogue grips with the finger grooves. Really sweet. I would post a picture, but I am on my iPad at the moment.

I love going to the range with my buddies and knocking down all 6 plates on a plate rack with 6 shots from my little P938... bang... bang... bang. It is always an impressive display!

I say: GO FOR IT!

 

[SharpDog]

Well, pocket carry is out of the question for me. I'm lucky to fit a ChapStick in some of my pockets. ☺ I'll definitely have to use some kind of iwb holster or belly band. I did shoot the p238 and glock 42 side by side, and definitely prefer the trigger and feel of the p238. But I didn't field strip either of them.

Some Resources (all but the last 3 are from a women's perspective, I included the last 3 because they mentioned some of the guns you are considering):

https://thewellarmedwoman.com/

https://thewellarmedwoman.com/women-guns/

https://thewellarmedwoman.com/about-guns/the-top-10-guns-women-buy/

https://www.agirlandagun.org/

https://www.agirlandagun.org/best-concealed-carry-guns-women/

https://www.gungoddess.com/

https://loadoutroom.com/thearmsguide/concealed-carry-female-perspective/

https://www.pewpewtactical.com/purse-carry-womans-perspective/

http://www.wideopenspaces.com/6-best-self-defense-handguns-women/

https://www.range365.com/ten-best-handguns-for-women

https://www.pewpewtactical.com/7-best-handguns-women/

 

[Rayna]

"bersaguy - thanks for the welcome, and for dealing with my questions so succinctly!

Double helix - hogue grips are actually one of the things I figured I'd buy pretty soon if I got the p238, because I like them on my revolver. I shot the p238 and p938 side by side at the range, and have only a slight preference for the 238. I just figure its safer to go with less recoil.