Pre-purchase jitters
- Thread starter Rayna
- Start date
- Status
chicharrones
needs more ammo
Rayna, welcome to THR.
Since you already own the S&W 642, I believe it would be worth the effort to try a box of 148 grain wadcutter ammo. This ammo is actually made for punching paper and is very easy on the hands in terms of felt recoil. Of course, since the recoil is lessened, the "punch" these rounds deal out on the receiving end is lessened as well. Still better than a .22LR, .22 mag, .25 Auto or even a .32 auto out of a short barrel carry gun, IMO.
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/wadcutter-ammo-self-defense/amp/
Since you already own the S&W 642, I believe it would be worth the effort to try a box of 148 grain wadcutter ammo. This ammo is actually made for punching paper and is very easy on the hands in terms of felt recoil. Of course, since the recoil is lessened, the "punch" these rounds deal out on the receiving end is lessened as well. Still better than a .22LR, .22 mag, .25 Auto or even a .32 auto out of a short barrel carry gun, IMO.
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/wadcutter-ammo-self-defense/amp/
Thank you for the suggestion. For practice I do shoot wadcutters. It helps but not enough.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
Good to hear you tried them. I'm not sure what pocket gun will be your answer. I'm hoping the Sig will be the one.
Jim Watson
Member
A friend went the same way.
Hubby considerately provided her with a nice simple .38 like yours.
A neighbor went the same way.
His perceived application led me to recommend a nice simple .38 like yours.
Why, I even went the same way.
Wish for a true pocket revolver led me to a M38, not a lot different from yours.
But when it came to the shooting, there was little accuracy and no fun at all.
Sound familiar?
The lady ended up with a .380 to carry and a G34 to shoot.
The neighbor carries the M642 and shoots a M10.
I am an enthusiast and carry this and that; the M38 still gets in a pocket, too. I mostly shoot a 1911.
We all take the nasty little flea weights out occasionally but don't try to do all our shooting with them.
Hubby considerately provided her with a nice simple .38 like yours.
A neighbor went the same way.
His perceived application led me to recommend a nice simple .38 like yours.
Why, I even went the same way.
Wish for a true pocket revolver led me to a M38, not a lot different from yours.
But when it came to the shooting, there was little accuracy and no fun at all.
Sound familiar?
The lady ended up with a .380 to carry and a G34 to shoot.
The neighbor carries the M642 and shoots a M10.
I am an enthusiast and carry this and that; the M38 still gets in a pocket, too. I mostly shoot a 1911.
We all take the nasty little flea weights out occasionally but don't try to do all our shooting with them.
LoneGoose
Member
Rayna, you are asking the right questions. And getting good advice. I don't think the .32 Magnum (.32 H&R Magnum) round was mentioned. Yes, it is a fairly mild yet effective round. I bought my girlfriend a Ruger LCR in .327 Federal Magnum (a stout and potent round); it can shoot .32 Longs and - yes - .32 H&R Magnums. She loves that combination. Light and easily controllable. The 100 grain .32 H&R packs a lot of punch with little recoil. It is a 6-shot revolver, not as flat as the Sig 238, and double-action only. The trigger is smooth and fairly light. Point and shoot. Myself, I carry the Sig 938 and love it. It is accurate, excellently made, and reliable. I also use the extended magazine for the extra purchase on the grip. I carry it in Condition 1 with total confidence. The trigger is covered when holstered and I have never had the safety get slipped off accidentally. Good luck.
toivo
Member
Possibly the softest-shooting centerfire handgun I've ever fired is the SIG P238 HD -- the one with the all-steel frame. The weight, small caliber, and locked breech action make it a joy to shoot.
P238 takedown is not that hard -- easier than a 1911. There are just a few things you need to remember NOT to do, and the manual explains those to you.
Cocked-and-locked carry is not a big deal to me: the safety has a very positive engagement, and the trigger isn't all that easy for a single-action pistol.
All of that said, the Glock 42 is a little bit more user-friendly in terms of takedown, manual of arms, etc. Isn't it ironic, though, that some people won't carry a Glock because of no safety, and some people won't carry cocked-and-locked, where there is a safety? I guess some people only feel secure carrying a DA/SA with the safety on, which I consider to be like wearing a belt and suspenders. Different strokes, etc.
P238 takedown is not that hard -- easier than a 1911. There are just a few things you need to remember NOT to do, and the manual explains those to you.
Cocked-and-locked carry is not a big deal to me: the safety has a very positive engagement, and the trigger isn't all that easy for a single-action pistol.
All of that said, the Glock 42 is a little bit more user-friendly in terms of takedown, manual of arms, etc. Isn't it ironic, though, that some people won't carry a Glock because of no safety, and some people won't carry cocked-and-locked, where there is a safety? I guess some people only feel secure carrying a DA/SA with the safety on, which I consider to be like wearing a belt and suspenders. Different strokes, etc.
Last edited:
danez71
Member
The gun shoots 32 shorts too.
My 70+ mother bought the same gun at my suggestion. She's small ( about 5' 1") but has fairly strong hands for her age and size.
She didn't like her heavy 38 and wanted something light and more than a 22 if possible. She prefers revolvers.
The store gave her a box of 327 mags when she bought it... she didn't like those.
I gave her the list in order of power of what it shoots.
I think she's shooting the 32 Longs or maybe 32 HR Mags but I think the 32 longs.
She loves it. She's actually called/texted me a couple times just to say that she's practicing with it and thanks to me.
She's half way across the country from me now. I miss her.
Welcome to THR Rayna.
98bluewave
Member
I have the Sig P238, G42, G43 and others. I hate taking down the Sig, cleaning, and re-assembling it!! If you are concerned about your ability to clean and maintain your pistol, Glock is a clear choice as they are simple, easy to take down, clean, and re-assemble. Also buy one that feels right in your hand and shoot it if you can before buying it. Buy the one that you enjoy shooting so that you will shoot it often and become proficient with it.
LoneGoose
Member
Oh, it shoots .32 ACP as well (a semi-rimmed cartridge).
Anyway, Rayna we're all excited for you. Please keep us posted. Good luck.
Anyway, Rayna we're all excited for you. Please keep us posted. Good luck.
I'm going to stake out a position here that may get flamed: Carry pistols should almost never be the first or only handgun owned by a person. Here's why:
Shooting pistols is hard. Don't make it harder on yourself at the outset. Give yourself a break and buy something easy to shoot while you're learning.
- Shooting a handgun proficiently is hard. It takes a lot of work (many thousands of rounds) to get decent, and a fair amount of work (certainly hundreds of rounds per year) to stay proficient. Taking a 1 day class is not enough. 50 rounds at the range once every 6 weeks... you might or might not learn real proficiency during your lifetime, depending on how old you are and your health.
- It is true that some self-defense scenarios don't require a great deal of proficiency, but some do. Missing the target in the real world means a stray bullet in public. Failing to get a secure grip on the draw in the real world may mean your gun is taken from you and used against you. Same thing for an inability to rapidly clear a jam. A gun wielded by a person of marginal competence may or may not be better than the proverbial sharp stick.
- Bigger guns are easier to shoot. They are more comfortable to shoot due to recoil issues (as the OP has discovered). But they also have other advantages. They usually can be made to have a much nicer trigger. The longer sight radius makes accuracy easier. The combination of reduced recoil and a slower-moving front sight means that it is easier to learn to track the sights in recoil. It is easier to learn how to get a proper, extremely-firm grip on the gun, and to learn how to shoot with a combination of speed and accuracy.
- In contrast, learning proper shooting with only a tiny gun is very difficult. It would be like trying to learn to ride a unicycle without ever having learned to ride a bike. Some might do it, but most people would simply find it frustrating and never get very good.
- Once you have learned to shoot with proficiency, it is easier to transfer those skills to a smaller, more-difficult-to-shoot gun than it is to learn to shoot well with a difficult gun in the first place.
- For those who say, "but the OP needs a carry gun now!" - Most people go their whole lives without ever needing to draw a concealed weapon on an assailant. It is wise to plan for even unlikely negative events, but be realistic about how likely such an event is to occur in the next [space of time]. For most people, a 6-month delay in starting to carry is extremely unlikely to have any impact, and that risk can be further mitigated with carry of something like pepper spray or a taser.
Shooting pistols is hard. Don't make it harder on yourself at the outset. Give yourself a break and buy something easy to shoot while you're learning.
Mauser lover
Member
Welcome to THR! I hope you find the information you are looking for here!
The 238 is a good gun from all accounts. Every firearm has its little quirks about assembly and disassembly. You will learn them, and you will get used to them. And yes, you will be able to do all the required maintenance on a Sig 238.
Above all other considerations (except maybe reliability), you should get a gun that you like. If you shoot it well, a modern handgun is not going to be too complicated. A GLOCK is easier to disassemble, yes. Big whoopie ding dongs! You will not be doing disassembly in a gunfight! If you can read the directions, you can disassemble the Sig. After a little practice doing disassembly, you won't have an issue. Being able to put rounds on target reliably is a much bigger issue. If you like shooting the 238 more than the Glock, go with the 238.
The single action trigger with a safety is a practice issue. If you practice enough with it, you will be comfortable with it. Someone already mentioned that you can try carrying it cocked, safety on, no round in the chamber for a while, and when you notice that the safety doesn't get bumped off you can switch to a chambered round. Also, when you are practicing shooting, make conscious effort to make sure your trigger finger is not on the trigger. It would take both actions for it to go off when holstered, and your holster should positively keep anything from getting into the trigger, and your safety should be a (good) redundant precaution.
And, .380 is just fine. As good as .38 special. Not ideal, but no handgun is ideal. Let's get a caliber war going! NOT!
You also might want to find a .327 Ruger LCR to try out. Six shots, and you can shoot everything from .327 Federal Magnum fireball ammo to plinking ammo like .32 S&W Short (think recoil like a .22 mag). Plus, it doesn't weigh much (if any) more than your Smith! I'm currently waiting on Ruger to come out with a 3" LCRx in .327 myself. For me. My wife might like it too, but it's for me! Unless she steals it and hides it.
The 238 is a good gun from all accounts. Every firearm has its little quirks about assembly and disassembly. You will learn them, and you will get used to them. And yes, you will be able to do all the required maintenance on a Sig 238.
Above all other considerations (except maybe reliability), you should get a gun that you like. If you shoot it well, a modern handgun is not going to be too complicated. A GLOCK is easier to disassemble, yes. Big whoopie ding dongs! You will not be doing disassembly in a gunfight! If you can read the directions, you can disassemble the Sig. After a little practice doing disassembly, you won't have an issue. Being able to put rounds on target reliably is a much bigger issue. If you like shooting the 238 more than the Glock, go with the 238.
The single action trigger with a safety is a practice issue. If you practice enough with it, you will be comfortable with it. Someone already mentioned that you can try carrying it cocked, safety on, no round in the chamber for a while, and when you notice that the safety doesn't get bumped off you can switch to a chambered round. Also, when you are practicing shooting, make conscious effort to make sure your trigger finger is not on the trigger. It would take both actions for it to go off when holstered, and your holster should positively keep anything from getting into the trigger, and your safety should be a (good) redundant precaution.
And, .380 is just fine. As good as .38 special. Not ideal, but no handgun is ideal. Let's get a caliber war going! NOT!
You also might want to find a .327 Ruger LCR to try out. Six shots, and you can shoot everything from .327 Federal Magnum fireball ammo to plinking ammo like .32 S&W Short (think recoil like a .22 mag). Plus, it doesn't weigh much (if any) more than your Smith! I'm currently waiting on Ruger to come out with a 3" LCRx in .327 myself. For me. My wife might like it too, but it's for me! Unless she steals it and hides it.
Stevie-Ray
Member
Did you shoot the P238 extensively, or simply "try it out." Reason I ask is I also wanted something "safer" than what I would have in the 1911, erroneously thinking "cocked and locked" lacked the assurance of safety while carrying 24-7. Being a die-hard 1911 guy, it was difficult coming to this rather misguided conclusion, and I wasted money on what many still consider one of the finest double-action carry guns of all time. But alas, it was never for me, and it lasted less than a year before a 1911 took it's place, and I've been perfectly happy for over 15 years of carry now. You may be a 1911 person (they're not for everybody) and if so, you may also not be happy until you have one. If you found the P238 to your liking, and especially if you shot it enough to know it doesn't do to your hands what the .38 revolver does, it will serve you well. As far as the capabilities go, I shoot .45 ACP, but my BUG is a P32, which is always on me, so even when my primary is at home, for whatever reason, I'm relying on .32 ACP, which is less capable than .380.
Having slept on it, I feel a lot more confident today. I think I will buy the p238, possibly today.
I am not completely discounting the opinions of those who think I should buy a full size gun of any stripe for practice, but I also know what you don't, which is how I currently shoot. I'm not starting from scratch here, and I wasn't when i started this cc journey months ago (though I was restarting after a long hiatus).
I could be better. I could always get better, and I plan to. But I wouldn't carry in public if I thought I was a danger to bystanders.
Another reason I like the p238 - I'm a better shot sao than dao.
I am not completely discounting the opinions of those who think I should buy a full size gun of any stripe for practice, but I also know what you don't, which is how I currently shoot. I'm not starting from scratch here, and I wasn't when i started this cc journey months ago (though I was restarting after a long hiatus).
I could be better. I could always get better, and I plan to. But I wouldn't carry in public if I thought I was a danger to bystanders.
Another reason I like the p238 - I'm a better shot sao than dao.
BSA1
member
Your comment about your wrists hurting after shooting immediately brought to mind the problems my wife has. He had carpal tunnel surgery and along with her small hands has trouble shooting most handguns. We have tried a bunch of different one over the years and got close with Colt Police Positive Special .38.
Then last year we went to a open house a LGS had so my wife handled a bunch of handguns…Glock, Walther , Springfield Armory, etc… She did not like anything until she picked up full size S&W M&P 9mm with 4.25” barrel. The gun has a APEX Duty Trigger Kit in it and TruGlo fiber optic sights. Due to her weak wrists a store associate taught her how to chamber a round by holding onto the slide and pushing the frame forward with her strong hand. Well we left the store with the gun.
Using the small replaceable backstrap the gun fits her hand. We spent a lot of time on the range last summer shooting. She has commented how much fun it is too shoot when the gun doesn’t hurt her hands. I brought her Crimson Trace laser for her birthday last week and now she is complaining about not being able to go shooting because of the weather.
For conceal carry she recently brought a purse with a outside pocket designed for a handgun. She carries a big purse anyway. (I suggested she quit carrying so much stuff so she could use a smaller purse but I got informed she needs all of that stuff).
The point of my long winded post is for you to think of a bigger gun. It is easier to grip, the recoil is softer, it is easier to control and 17 rounds of 9mm is a lot of firepower.
Tanner Sports has S&W M&P 1.0 for sale for $269.00. It has smoother grips than the M&P 2.0 model. The bad news the trigger pull on the 1.0 sucks. The good news is a APEX Duty Trigger kit only costs about $100.00 and dramatically improves the gun. So with shipping, transfer fee and trigger kit you are looking at around $400.00.
I like my wife’s M&P so well I just brought another new one and plan on installing a APEX Duty Trigger Kit in it soon.
Then last year we went to a open house a LGS had so my wife handled a bunch of handguns…Glock, Walther , Springfield Armory, etc… She did not like anything until she picked up full size S&W M&P 9mm with 4.25” barrel. The gun has a APEX Duty Trigger Kit in it and TruGlo fiber optic sights. Due to her weak wrists a store associate taught her how to chamber a round by holding onto the slide and pushing the frame forward with her strong hand. Well we left the store with the gun.
Using the small replaceable backstrap the gun fits her hand. We spent a lot of time on the range last summer shooting. She has commented how much fun it is too shoot when the gun doesn’t hurt her hands. I brought her Crimson Trace laser for her birthday last week and now she is complaining about not being able to go shooting because of the weather.
For conceal carry she recently brought a purse with a outside pocket designed for a handgun. She carries a big purse anyway. (I suggested she quit carrying so much stuff so she could use a smaller purse but I got informed she needs all of that stuff).
The point of my long winded post is for you to think of a bigger gun. It is easier to grip, the recoil is softer, it is easier to control and 17 rounds of 9mm is a lot of firepower.
Tanner Sports has S&W M&P 1.0 for sale for $269.00. It has smoother grips than the M&P 2.0 model. The bad news the trigger pull on the 1.0 sucks. The good news is a APEX Duty Trigger kit only costs about $100.00 and dramatically improves the gun. So with shipping, transfer fee and trigger kit you are looking at around $400.00.
I like my wife’s M&P so well I just brought another new one and plan on installing a APEX Duty Trigger Kit in it soon.
FL-NC
Member
IMO, you are getting shorted on power with a 380, and $ on a Sig. 9mm will give you more power and cheaper ammo. I would recommend a S&W shield 9, striker fired 9mm with a safety you can use if you desire. Another option would be a Ruger LC9.
I had a Sig P238 a few years ago and it was a very easy gun to shoot well, and with a decent rate of fire. It was fun to shoot. (At the time, ammo was hard to obtain so I ended up selling it.) Although the .380 generally packs less punch than a +P .38 Special fired out of a revolver with a 4 inch barrel, the .38 Special loses a lot when fired out of a short barreled gun and even more when standard pressure rounds are used. Then, as the OP learned, they are hard to shoot well and regularly in a lightweight gun. It is much better to have a .380 that you can hit with and train with than a small revolver that will see occasional use because it is unpleasant to use. I think it is a decent gun for someone who is willing to carry it and train with it with the hammer cocked and manual safety on.
I must say that I am turning into a fan of the new S&W M&P Shield .380 EZ without the thumb safety (the thumb safety versions have been recalled), but it is a larger gun, weighs a few ounces more, and is much less suitable for concealed carry than the Sig P238. On the benefit side, it has a longer barrel and gets better ballistics.
I must say that I am turning into a fan of the new S&W M&P Shield .380 EZ without the thumb safety (the thumb safety versions have been recalled), but it is a larger gun, weighs a few ounces more, and is much less suitable for concealed carry than the Sig P238. On the benefit side, it has a longer barrel and gets better ballistics.
js8588
Member
If you buy the Sig, trade in your 38 Special. It will take some of the $ sting out of the purchase & you hate shooting it anyway.
My fiancee happens to like the little Sig as well, though she hasn't purchased one yet (neither of us has a 380 and we're a little reticent about adding an extra caliber to our inventory). No doubt, it's a good gun.
Maybe look into the 365? It doesn't have a safety, though and that seems to be a desired feature.
How about a Beretta 84fs? A bigger/heavier gun (but still compact), true, but you can carry it safety on/hammer down (it has a decocker/safety). Pretty much doubles your capacity (13+1).
Also to consider, a Ruger LC380. Double action only (think "revolver like" trigger) with a safety. MUCH cheaper than the Sig.
The Ruger LC9s would give you a decent trigger and a safety while only being a bit bigger than the Sig (and I don't think much heavier, if at all) while also being a 9mm.
Any way you go, you'll be happier than you are now.
My fiancee happens to like the little Sig as well, though she hasn't purchased one yet (neither of us has a 380 and we're a little reticent about adding an extra caliber to our inventory). No doubt, it's a good gun.
Maybe look into the 365? It doesn't have a safety, though and that seems to be a desired feature.
How about a Beretta 84fs? A bigger/heavier gun (but still compact), true, but you can carry it safety on/hammer down (it has a decocker/safety). Pretty much doubles your capacity (13+1).
Also to consider, a Ruger LC380. Double action only (think "revolver like" trigger) with a safety. MUCH cheaper than the Sig.
The Ruger LC9s would give you a decent trigger and a safety while only being a bit bigger than the Sig (and I don't think much heavier, if at all) while also being a 9mm.
Any way you go, you'll be happier than you are now.
danez71
Member
You must not have read the part that she said that she's already shot the shield and decided against it.
Yup, plunked down the debit card today for the p238.
Now impatiently waiting to hear from the FFL in my state who will transfer it. I live on a state line, so the gun shop I go to most often is actually out of state.
Told DH it's my anniversary present. See how considerate I am, saving him the trouble of shopping for me? And coincidentally, it's our 11th coming up, the steel anniversary. There is no polymer anniversary, unfortunately for Glock fans.
Now impatiently waiting to hear from the FFL in my state who will transfer it. I live on a state line, so the gun shop I go to most often is actually out of state.
Told DH it's my anniversary present. See how considerate I am, saving him the trouble of shopping for me? And coincidentally, it's our 11th coming up, the steel anniversary. There is no polymer anniversary, unfortunately for Glock fans.
Last edited:
Outstanding. Congratulations & I hope this one works out better than the last one did.
I love it!
Rayna, best of luck with your new gun. You may want to Google the Ammo Quest .380 series on YouTube to figure out the ammo you will want to carry. Also, the gun, like most Sigs, has long rails that result in a lot of metal to metal contact. It is best to keep the rails well lubricated using whatever Sig is recommending these days (it used to be TW25B). If you notice malfunctions starting after you have been shooting a while, check the rails, it's not the gun.
My S&W 4566 with inexpensive import loads is nearly identical in perceived recoil compared to my Kahr CW380. Weight of the actual firearm and loading of the specific ammo controls a lot of the experience.
Both are self loaders, which also spreads the recoil affect over a short period of time as the slide cycles. A revolver does not, which imparts a higher peak load which isn't trimmed off by cycling.
Because of this many revolver shooters practice with lighter .38 Special rounds, then load up with +P for carry. Those who have actually been forced to use their weapons generally report that they didn't really notice a difference in recoil as their attention was focused on the situation, unlike being at a range.
If there is a distinct problem with recoil, then the price to carry is more gun weight and less FPS forcing a heavy bullet down the bore. Which is why a lot of carriers chose a full stainless gun, which is about 4 oz more, and load it with 125gn hollowpoints as their happy medium. They don't necessarily practice with carry ammo extensively, price is a common reason, and do choose the better holsters and use a good quality gun belt to reduce comfort issues. I have more problems with a IWB .380 in carry comfort than I ever did with a M9 on a pistol belt. YMMV.
Both are self loaders, which also spreads the recoil affect over a short period of time as the slide cycles. A revolver does not, which imparts a higher peak load which isn't trimmed off by cycling.
Because of this many revolver shooters practice with lighter .38 Special rounds, then load up with +P for carry. Those who have actually been forced to use their weapons generally report that they didn't really notice a difference in recoil as their attention was focused on the situation, unlike being at a range.
If there is a distinct problem with recoil, then the price to carry is more gun weight and less FPS forcing a heavy bullet down the bore. Which is why a lot of carriers chose a full stainless gun, which is about 4 oz more, and load it with 125gn hollowpoints as their happy medium. They don't necessarily practice with carry ammo extensively, price is a common reason, and do choose the better holsters and use a good quality gun belt to reduce comfort issues. I have more problems with a IWB .380 in carry comfort than I ever did with a M9 on a pistol belt. YMMV.
John Joseph
Member
- Joined
- May 5, 2016
- Messages
- 1,441
Confidence is everything----well, most everything.
Get rid of that .38 Spl. and if the .380 SIG is what you can hit targets with, embrace it.
Since carrying safely is your big concern, I'd recommend spending a little time with a solid, professional instructor who can instill some confidence.
As for the money, this is something you're trusting you're life and your loved one's lives with for decades to come.
It'll amortize it's self viewed in that mindset.
I hope this helps.
Get rid of that .38 Spl. and if the .380 SIG is what you can hit targets with, embrace it.
Since carrying safely is your big concern, I'd recommend spending a little time with a solid, professional instructor who can instill some confidence.
As for the money, this is something you're trusting you're life and your loved one's lives with for decades to come.
It'll amortize it's self viewed in that mindset.
I hope this helps.
- Status