Pre- to Post-ban legal AR Barrel

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Spieler

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I have a pre-ban (bayo lug & flash suppressor) AR15/M16 barrel that I will be using on a post-ban AR build. The flash suppressor will be replaced by a permanently attached comp, so no problem there.

My question regards the bayo lug. Do I have to mill it off the sight base completely or is it legal to just shave the attachment points on which the bayonet locks? I've read that this is legal on using pre-ban barrels from AK kits on AK builds and just wondered if it was okay to do with the ARs as well.

Thanks.
 
Not sure what ATF would say, but the ones I have seen were completely ground off. I think you're safest that way.

If you just cut off the ears, you could still stick a Bayo on it, it just would not lock. I think that would be asking for trouble.
 
I've heard that as long as a bayo will not lock on, you're OK. But I'm not a lawyer. Even better, have someone weld up the sides of the lug and file it square so the bayo won't even go on. But I also understand that a grenade launcher cannot fit on over the post ban brake according to the law. Just wait a few more months......
 
My completely unsolicited opinion: don't alter the pre-ban barrel. Once you do you can never really go back (meaning you can make a pre-ban a post-ban, but not vice versa.)

I think if a particular process is legal for AKs, it would be legal for ARs as well since the law isn't completely model-specific and is geared more towards features and cosmetics.
 
You can shave the sides of the mount and it's good to go. No need to take off the entire lug. It must simply be inoperable.

don't alter the pre-ban barrel. Once you do you can never really go back (meaning you can make a pre-ban a post-ban, but not vice versa.)
You can swap upper configurations at will. It is the preban lower that can lose it's preban status, not the upper. As long as he is not taking a complete preban AR and using that upper to build a post-ban AR, he's OK.
 
I'd wait till Sept and see if the AWB sunsets, as we all hope an pray. I would much prefer the threaded flash suppressor to a soldered (which have been know to come loose) brake. I'm not sure about the bayo lug, I'd grind it completely off to be safe. Who wants a bayonet on a carbine rifle anyway?

Shabo
 
Originally posted by Hkmp5sd:
You can swap upper configurations at will. It is the preban lower that can lose it's preban status, not the upper. As long as he is not taking a complete preban AR and using that upper to build a post-ban AR, he's OK

Is this statement entirely true? I only ask because as I understand it, you can only have two of the evil features on a rifle and thus you cannot have a pistol grip, removable magazine, AND a bayo lug on the rifle at the same time. Which is why the author is asking about removing the upper features that make it a "pre-ban" so to speak. In effect, this essentially prevents, if not by law then by practicality, from mating a post-ban lower with a pre-ban upper (since the lowers come with 1 of the features already and the bayo lug would make it 2). That's how I understood it anyway. And what's the difference of using the upper from a complete pre-ban and just the barrel? I don't see any, since the features are all on the barrel. Clarification, por favor.

Anyhow, that discussion aside, I wasn't so much referring to the legal status as I was to the actual physical features of the rifle (in this case the bayo lug barrel).

My intent was to say that once the features are "shaved" off (or however he intends to remove them), they can't really ever be put back on in original condition. And that is what I was pointing to preserving.
 
Clarification.

A person can legally order and possess an AR upper from Bushmaster with a threaded barrel, flash suppressor and bayonet lug that was manufactured yesterday (ie after the '94 ban) provided he either does not own an AR lower or he does own a preban AR lower that is classified as an assault weapon.

Spieler can legally take a preban configured upper, remove the evil features and install it on a postban lower. If later on he buys a preban AR, he can put the evil features back on the upper and use it on the preban AR. Nothing prevents restoring it and then attaching it back to a preban lower.

It does not matter when or who makes a preban AR configured upper, it's still legal. It only becomes illegal if it is possessed/attached to a postban AR lower.
 
This

You can swap upper configurations at will.

and this

It only becomes illegal if it is possessed/attached to a postban AR lower.

contradict each other.

The first one reads as if the AR15 owner may use any configuration he wishes on any given lower. I know that isn't strictly what you meant. But I think you can see where the confusion arose when the necessary caveat of mating it to the appropriate lower was omitted. I believe you meant to say that any upper configuration could be mated to a pre-ban lower. (I also understand that only the lowers are categorized as pre-ban by date; but by default any upper can just as easily be categorized as pre-ban or post-ban based on its features and the lower to which it can be attached; I think (hope) most AR owners understand the subtle difference.)

I also understand how my statement of

don't alter the pre-ban barrel. Once you do you can never really go back (meaning you can make a pre-ban a post-ban, but not vice versa.)

is not entirely correct, by definition. I can see how one might read it to mean that lowers can never legally have the evil features reattached, which of course they can. Regarding the bayo lug/front sight block: once it's shaved, it can never be "unshaved" to return it to the pre-ban configuration full of "evil" features. I realize he can legally return it to pre-ban config by removing the old shaved front sight block and installing a new front sight block with the bayo lug, but that particular front sight block can never be returned to its original configuration. That was the basis of my comment.

And to muddy the waters even more (though please understand I'm not trying to pick a fight by any means):

It is the preban lower that can lose it's preban status, not the upper.

By your own admission, the lower is the only thing that is accurately labeled pre-ban since it is categorized by date of manufacture (assuming part of a complete rifle, that part is important). If that is the case, then how is the above statement true?

And finally:

As long as he is not taking a complete preban AR and using that upper to build a post-ban AR, he's OK.

Again, not entirely true, as you've said before. It would only be a problem if he failed to remove the requisite number of evil features. He's still legally allowed to take the upper from a complete pre-ban rifle and mate it to a post-ban rifle assuming the evil features had been removed, right?

I know it seems like I'm nitpicking and maybe I am a little bit. But this stuff is serious business and people can easily and innocently make a mistake that hurts them bigtime. I think it's imperative that all the details and assumptions and caveats are stated when making affirmations about the legality of configurations and lowers and whatnot. I just feel that these were left out sometimes (which apparently led to the confusion).

I think we both know what we want to say, but neither one of us were crystal clear. Hope I didn't ruffle the feathers any.
 
Although it would look neat with a stub there, my advice would be to just have it milled off or purchase a post ban FSB to replace it.

That way there is a zero chance of gray area and no problems whatsoever should things get checked out by overzealous LE/ATF personnel.

But if you feel the need to keep the stub anyway I'd advise writing the ATF firearms branch and have them issue an opinion/letter attesting on the legality of your modification. That way you will have some definite back up instead of just an internet forum.



Good Shooting
Red
 
ARperson,

It does sound like we're saying the same thing. Essentially, he can take a preban configured upper, remove the features and add it to a postban lower. He can then remove the upper, add the evil features back and attach it to a preban lower (provided it meets the definition of preban assault rifle and not simply a lower made before 1994).

Is it September yet? :)
 
Thanks for all the replies.

I already have an assembled pre-ban CAR15/M4 AR, but I also have another post-ban lower and pre-ban bbl that I want to build into a fully-assembled rifle before Sept. just in case the AWB is made even more stringent than it currently is. That way I could still use the post-ban configured upper on both lowers.:)

My intent was to keep the bbl profile as near to original appearance as possible, hence the desire to retain the bayo lug 'nub' and just make the lug incapable of mounting and securing a bayonet to stay legal.
 
The gotcha on reversing the mods to the "pre-ban" configured barrel is that R&Ring the front sight base is not as easy as it seems. IIRC this isn't even provided in the depot-level manual. I know that it can be done, but getting good, reliable results is not as easy as it looks. Unless you really don't care whether or not it's got the lug -- but it sounds like you haven't gotten to that point -- I'd either find a lugless barrel or wait to see what happens.
 
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