pre-warning, Mauser ID

[ID_shooting]

OK guys, here is a pre-action warning message to get the dust off those old Mauser reference books, pics not available yet but look for them tomarrow. I picked up an odd Mauser 98 and will need some help IDing it. It does say Mod 98 on the side of the reciever so I know that much allready

Has the Nazi markings all over the place, no crest, and every number on it matches even the bolt shroud and sight ring. But here is where the oddeties begin. There is no hole in the front band for a cleaning rod, there is a recess where it would be, but the hole was never drilled. There is no metal ring behind the hole for the sling, and has a laminate stock. It has 42 on the reciever and the barrel with two different three letter manufacturer codes on the receiver and the barrel and no import markings.

The headspace is bit loose, closes on the no-go gauge but not on the field guage (safe for light load, I think?) It has 50 years worth of gummed up oil/greese in the works and on the finnish, any idea what can cut through it?

I gave $100.00 even for it

I will post pics as I tear it down this weekend.

 

[ID_shooting]

OK, pics as promised before tear down.

Reciever markings are: bcd, 42, mod 98, letter g under the serial number, and the Nazi stamp

Barrel markings are: bys, 42, 792 on the ring right next to the reciever, avk on the underneath side 180 degres from the bys, 15 right next to the avk, and the same Nazi stamp

So, what do I have?

 

[Randy in Arizona]

There is a simple solution to your problem!

If you handload, then just back the size die off a half turn from the normal 'lightly bump the shoulder back' setting so that the fired case keeps the same headspace length after sizing as before. Headspace is a variable that you have control over when you handload.

If the rifle is otherwise sound, full power loads should be fine - once the cases are fireformed.

I have a .300 Win Mag that is super tight in the headspace department. I had to remove a few thousandths from the mouth of the RCBS FL Size die I bought when the gun was built.

I have to trim the length back every few firings, but no evidence of case separation so far. (some cases with 25 or so firings.



PM me if you have further questions.

 

[RWMC]

I would say it sounds like you have a German WWII K98k Mauser that ended up in Israel. The 2 Israeli K98k mausers I have owned in the past also had no fixtures for a cleaning rod. The Israeli's made every part for mauser rifles except actions. Again, I do not claim to be an expert by no means, Im just giving you my best educated guess based on my personal past experience. I would look up the german code for you, but my book is in the garage and its late, cold outside and I'm getting tired. So I will get the info for you in the morning.

 

[armoredman]

Is it 8mm or 308? Would LOVE to find a 308 Israeli Mauser.

 

[ID_shooting]

UPDATE:

I have it taken down and all the small parts scrubbed clean. found additional markings on the bolt shroud: ghn. found another Nazi eagle with swastika on the rear of the bolt handle and more matching serial numbers throughout the whole rifle. I think the stock may have been changed though as it has 629 stamped on the side and that number doesn't appear anywhere else. So far, no other markings on the stock set.

armoredman: 8mm

RWMC: Thanks, I look forward to your info when you look it up, this is becomeing quite facinating. Question though, if it was done by the Isralis after the war, would they leave the Nazi marks all over it? I am no pro at Mausers by any means, but if I had just had war raged agained my whole people, I would remove any trace of those marks.

 

[SDC]

"bcd" was the German ordnance code for Gustloff-Werke, Weimar, and your rifle was built in 1942; the "g" under the serial number is called the "serif letter", and it's common to all of the WW2 German small arms. When they serial-numbered their arms, they started at "1" and built up to "9999", then they started the series over again at "1a" and built up to "9999a". To get to your serial number, they would have had to go up to "9999" 7 times, meaning that Gustloff-Werke built at least 70,000 K98s in 1942. HTH.

 

[Jim K]

Check the following for German Ordnance Codes:

http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/codes_full.html

To save time, I will say that "bys" and "avk" were the same company, Ruhrstahl, A.G. "bys" was the Guss-Stahl (cast steel) plant at Witten-Annen, and "avk" was the factory at Brackwede-Bielefeld. The presence of two markings indicates the barrel was probably rough forged at the Witten-Annen plant, then sent to the other factory for finishing.

The absence of the cleaning rod hole does not indicate Israeli use; the sectioned rifle cleaning rod was dispensed with in the late wartime rifles and full length unit cleaning rods substituted.

When the rifle was made in 1942, it would have had the hole for the cleaning rod. Its absence is not indicative of some mistake, but of replacement of the original stock with a late one without the hole. The replacement could have been done in German service, or at any time in the 50 years afterward.

As to the Israeli question, I have seen little evidence that the Israelis cared a bent agorot about Nazi markings. They are a practical people and if the gun shot well, they might have found it ironic that it had swastikas on it, but they would not have bothered to remove them as the Yugoslavs did.

Jim

 

[ID_shooting]

Thank Jim,

This is so much fun learnig about the history in these firearms, this is my 3rd C&R piece.

So not, I need to figure out what to do with the stock. We joke about them being used as oars, this one may well have been. The last 4 inches or so appear to be water damages, there is no finish left and there are surface cracks.

Questions to everyone, what would you do with it?

 

[Sleuth]

Keep it as is. I have a fair sized collection of C&R guns (into 3 digits), and each gun tells a story. My US Lee Navy (6mm Lee) has a stock cut off just in front of the front band. This is the mark of a 'barracks bag' gun, taken down and the stock cut so it would fit into a barraks bag.