Preacherman ..... prisoner's gun attitudes?

[igor]

Great material. My hat's off to you, gentlemen, both for the work you do and for the good will to share here.

 

[Richardson]

Preacherman,

First, thanks for doing prison ministry. I got involved at the county jail for about a year with a friend who does prison ministry. It was difficult to sense that you (as a minister) were anything other than a tool to most inmates (to get out of the cell for a few minutes, or to mock, or to gain sympathy, etc.).

Second, you concur what other corrections officers have indicated to me. The only additional factor I learned is that many criminals are caliber savy in that they respect larger bore handguns and those that bear them. The thought is that they (as a generalization) look at a .38 or 9mm as a gun anyone could have (hence putting them on "equal terms" with the criminal), but big bore guns are usually kept by experienced shooters (putting the criminal at a serious disadvantage).

I'd never think of relying on caliber perception (by the criminal) to stop an attack, but it sounds like it could sway the opinion of some less determined criminals...

Thanks for your treatise...

Richardson

 

[Zach S]

However, a percentage (very small) can read you, the gun enthusiast--your photo vest, your walk, your Glock hat, which states have "concealed carry", etc. If you are an adult white male in a state with CCW, you are more likely to be left alone by those that can read you.

Would cutting the forefinger and thumb off of my right glove take it too far?

 

[Preacherman]

Richardson, I think Clint Smith put it very well:

"You can say ‘stop’ or ‘alto’ or use any other word you think will work, but I’ve found that a large bore muzzle pointed at someone’s head is pretty much the universal language."

 

[P95Carry]

but we've also saved those whom he would have robbed, or raped, or killed, on his release.

That is for sure the biggest up-side if you do succeed ... but the rest of the time ..... it is those very people I worry about (next victims) ...... and of course that is where our wish to carry comes in IMO. Just never know.

It is pretty rural round here and basically pretty low crime .. mostly vandalistic nonsense (bad enough!) and the occasional homicide .. and that usually ''crime of passion'' category.

However ... I am only about 13 miles from PA Turnpike ... and much of the nation travels East/West ..... West/East by that route .... and it has been proven in the past that at any time some outa state villain could, just could ... be the guy filling up with gas near the interchange, or munching a burger ..... thus my motto's ..... ''Expect unexpected'' and ''Never assume''!!

Preacherman ... I am again indebted to you for your not inconsiderable time spent writing posts on this thread ... it has been an invaluable insight for me ... and many others too I'd reckon. Without your input - and earlier that of Armoredman too ...... we would be much less well informed.

What started as a thread based on pure curiosity, has turned out to be a most useful and enlightening excercise ... my hearty thanks Sir. THR is the richer for your presence and input.

 

[Preacherman]

Another thing to think about is home-invasion type robberies and assaults. I've spoken with a number of inmates about this. Their unanimous opinion is that this is the fastest, easiest and safest way to tackle anyone who might have a gun, for the following reasons:

1. They're in their "comfort zone", not expecting trouble. If a BG bursts in on them, there's the inevitable reaction time - giving the invaders a chance to overwhelm them, or take family members hostage.

2. They're usually not carrying a gun. They may have one on the bedside table, but be in the living room - or they may have locked them away in a gun safe so that their kids can't get at them.

3. Action beats reaction. The BG(s) busting in the door are primed and ready for action (violent and lethal if need be). The homeowner(s) is/are not expecting to have to resort to such action, and usually can't react fast enough to stop the attack.

These are very good reasons to have good perimeter defence on your home (so that it can't be broken through quickly or quietly), and to have a gun within reach at all times.

 

[P95Carry]

Thx again P'man ... makes me think ... my offic etc is in a separate building at bottom of yard ... maybe about time I got my wife or step kids .. or anyone .. to give a voice recognition ''something'' before they come all the ways in ..

True enough ... BG's in this scenario have an awesome advantage ... what's the old adage ...''attack - is the best form of defence''!!

 

[CommonSense]

Preacherman: Could you ask specifically of the “crack†dealers if they offered more money for guns than TV’s and DVD players and the like. That seems to be the consensus here in Milwaukee. Our out-going chief of police has offered numbers in the drug war that to me makes it clear that “crack†and stolen weapons are an extreme problem.

I don’t know if his claims are true, but with DVD players selling at $29 this Christmas season, I have to wonder.

 

[Kharn]

How do most prisoners feel when a shotgun or rifle makes an appearance in a victim's hands?

Kharn

 

[CommonSense]

Kharn: No offense, but did you read the thread before posting? The answer to your question was already posted.

 

[Kharn]

CommonSense:
I did read the thread as it evolved over the last several days (and re-read it to make sure I didnt miss anything), all the gun references seemed to be more about handguns or firearms in general.

For some (especially Maryland residents, like myself) a rifle or shotgun is legal in a vehicle while a handgun is not (and CCW is practically unobtainable), so an insight into what criminals think about a rifle/shotgun being brought into the equation would be very helpful.

Kharn

 

[CommonSense]

Kharn: Preacherman’s posts should have made it clear on the BG’s attitude. Please read his posts.

 

[Preacherman]

OK, guys, don't fight over me...

To answer your question, Commonsense, yes, crack-for-guns is a very popular trade on the streets, at least in this area. Where a supplier might ask for several hundred dollars for a dealer's supply, he'll give him that same supply for one stolen SKS or pumpgun. Consumer items such as DVD players, etc. are discounted heavily, and aren't popular as trade goods.

Kharn, for a felon to see a rifle or shotgun in a citizen's hands apparently produces the quickest cure for constipation that the felon's had in weeks... The shotgun has the greatest visual impact, according to conversations I've had - as in "That MF'in cop/person pointed that MF'in gun at my MF'in head, and I looked down that MF'in big hole and thought, 'MF!!!' " (I think you get the general sense... )

 

[P95Carry]

Peter .. I am not a religious man (spiritual yes) .. but sure as anything, I'd really enjoy sittin down over a beer with you. Wish every preacherman was as laid back as you. Kudos Sir.!

 

[Gunhead]

Excellent thread! Thanks Preacherman!

 

[keyhole]

"You can say ‘stop’ or ‘alto’ or use any other word you think will work, but I’ve found that a large bore muzzle pointed at someone’s head is pretty much the universal language."

I remember an old Sgt. who has his model29 screwed onto the forehead of a guy I had been chasing in an attempted burglary. IIRC his eyes were as big as dinner plates!

And all Gods children said "AMEN"

 

[Carlos]

Outstanding read. Thanks Preacherman and others.

 

[BallisticTip]

Good stuff, bump.

 

[Zach]

as in "That MF'in cop/person pointed that MF'in gun at my MF'in head, and I looked down that MF'in big hole and thought, 'MF!!!' " (I think you get the general sense... )

Well, that certainly shows the diversity of the words doesn't it?

 

[mountainclmbr]

I had a home invasion almost 20 years ago. The guy was really creepy...skinhead, tattoos and a totally insane look on his face as he charged for me. I brought up my 44 spl Charter Arms and was starting to pull the trigger when he turned and ran.

I have often wondered what became of this lunatic. Did this experience "scare him straight" or did I allow innocent people to die or suffer great harm because I hesitated to recycle him?

 

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

Great read. Thanks Preacherman.

 

[jhisaac1]

Nationally, the inmate recidivism rate (i.e. those reincarcerated after committing another crime) is running at about 70% after 5 years. That means that within 5 years of their release, 7 out of 10 inmates are back behind bars.

Does recidivism only cover BG's caught and convicted? The quote says "inmates are back behind bars". That is different from "inmates are committing crimes". Any thoughts/impressions on that?

 

[Pappy John]

Thanks for raising this thread back from the depths. I missed it the first time around....deer camp.

Great information, Preacherman. Thanks again for all your efforts on society's behalf and for the quest to reclaim these lost souls. I know that I wouldn't have your patience.

 

[Preacherman]

Does recidivism only cover BG's caught and convicted? The quote says "inmates are back behind bars". That is different from "inmates are committing crimes". Any thoughts/impressions on that?

Yes, you're right - the recidivism statistics only cover those convicted of further crimes. I'm sure there are those who commit crimes and are not caught - they don't show up in the statistics.

 

[Telperion]

The responses here definitely corroborate John Stossel's interview with the NJ felons. Criminals fear armed citizens more than law enforcement and the threat of prison time.