preparing to load rifle cartridges for the 1st time

[Mag_357TX]

Hello everyone,

I'm new here. I posted in the intro thread yesterday. Anyway, I've been loading 9, 40, 38 and 357 for about a year now.

And am now slowly but surely gathering everything I need to load 556. Never loaded for a rifle before (it's for an AR15).

I have a few questions about certain supplies I should order. I don't currently own a case trimmer, chamfering/deburring tool or primer pocket reaming tool.

I have a bunch of 556 military brass I plan to load when I finally get everything I need. I need some recommendations on the best value for case prep tools (cause I don't do much "prepping" on my pistol casings, I don't own any case prep tools of any kind).

Can someone recommend the best tools (at the best price) for the functions I mentioned above?

1. Primer pocket reaming (for mil brass, small rifle primers)
2. Case trimmer (preferably able to trim more than 1 caliber as I plan to take on more calibers in the future).

I have a set of Lee 223 dies (the ones in the red container).

I also need some recommendations for powder for loading for an AR15 and also where to find 556/223 bullets. (I know these two are alot easier said than done).

Help is appreciated. Any other factor I should consider before actually loading rifle cartridges for the first time, feel free to mention that as well.

 

[zxcvbob]

Anyway, I've been loading 9, 40, 38 and 357 for about a year now. And am now slowly but surely gathering everything I need to load 556. Never loaded for a rifle before (it's for an AR15).

I'm in about the same boat as you, except I've been in it for a year

I use the Lee case trimmers; I've used them before in a cordless drill, but now I chuck the trimmer part in a drill press and don't use the shellholder part. It's a lot faster that way. I also really like the look of the WFT trimmer: http://www.littlecrowgunworks.com/wft.html

I started out with Varget powder because I don't think you can overcharge a .223 with it. A max load will be a compressed load. H335 and W748 are supposed to be good; actually there are *lots* of good powders to pick from and you'll have trouble picking a bad one.

 

[45lcshooter]

Lee trimmers are cheap. Hornady makes a trimmer with different caliber pilots. Lyman makes one also.

Powders- H335, CFE 223, AR-COMP

Order chamfer/deburr tool, some sort of trimmer, RCBS Swage die(takes the crimp out of the pocket). I don't take any of the crimp out, I just turn the case in my Lee Auto Prime then the primer goes in with a little turning of the case.

 

[zxcvbob]

You probably know this already, but you trim the cases *after* you resize them.

 

[oldpapps]

The actions are about the same between loading 'straight walled' cases and 'bottle necked'.

The prep of the cases is a little (sometimes more than a little) more intense for the bottle necks.

Straight walls lengthen (not nearly as much or as soon as bottle necks). So little, that I don't trim them. I trim my rifle brass every loading.

My degree of precision shooting with a pistol, just isn't the same as for a rifle. Thus, I am not as picky with pistol rounds. This does not translate to safety.

I have been known to just stick my cleaner, just fired .45 brass right into my progressive press.
Yet I normally both 'rattle tub' clean and 'pin tumble' clean my rifle brass as I'm in my loading process. The thought of running my progressive press with rifle loads just locks up my thought process.

OK, now you know that I am OCD.

Clean it, trim it, re-prime it, charge it, stick a bullet in it, and shoot it.

The trepidation of that first shot with a new loading is one of thoughtful concerns. Love it.

Try it, you'll like it.

 

[arizona_cards_11]

General advice....not related to the products you asked about.

For your first time through:

If you're using a progressive press, I advise doing all of the case prep work in a separate run before you prime, charge, and seat.

ex.

Step 1 - Full Length Resize & Deprime (If brass is very dirty, you may tumble first)
Step 2 - Tumble, Trim, & Chamfer/Deburr
Step 3 - Prime, Charge, & Seat bullet


The amount of force required to FL-resize and deprime bottlenecked/crimped military rifle brass can be significantly different than straightwalled commercial pistol brass.

Lubricate generously starting out until you get a feel for how much you actually need.

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0007607600

 

[blarby]

On the cheap, I would wholehearetedly recommend the lee trimmer.

I have it, use it, and the pilots for it are present in every caliber I load for. The zip-trim is a useless piece of trash, but the hand held cutter and a drill to put the chuck into or even a bit holding screwdriver are fantastic.

For primer pockets, If you don't want to spend a ton of money, the lyman hand tools are fantastic. As an added bonus they are threaded the same as the RCBS trim-mate...so when you have the cash and desire to make your case prep a lot faster, just remove the individual toolheads from the lyman hand tools, and screw 'em in your trim-mate. You can get ALL of the lyman hand tools in a little kit for about $60 if it strikes your fancy.

As for taking the crimps out of your military brass.... you will get quite a few recommendations. Until you decide which route to go, you can twist them out with a few turns of a #2 phillips on the small rifle primer cases. Just push the screwdriver tip into the primer hole, and twist until the crimp is gone- takes about 2 or 3 turns once you get the hang of the pressure it requires.

 

[Mag_357TX]

I am loading on a Lee Classic Turret, Single Stage. I want a trimmer that is fairly easy to use, trims well, and doesn't cost a fortune.

Same thing with the primer reaming tool. Any recommendations on those?

Thanks for the advice thus far.

Are these worth what they are charging for them:

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/pr...5&variation=&gclid=COm7gZbx2bYCFUHe4AodaU4ABg

http://www.shop.com/RCBS_Trim_Pro_M...sourceid=298&gclid=CPuM95Tx2bYCFccw4AodCQ0A8w

I heard there are some manual tools that you can use for all case prep operations (trimming, chamfering/deburring, and reaming), but the only ones I've been able to find are about $400.

 

[T Bran]

I like the LEE trim tools but I don't use them in the zip trim as I found it to be frustrating.
Now I just chuck the case holder in a cordless drill and vise mount both the cutter pilot as well as my deburing tools. After trimming I just give the case a spin to remove burrs before removing it from the holder.
This works well for me but there are some far better systems if you are planning to do a large volume of cases.
T

 

[stavman11]

Im with T Bran

I have the lee Zip tool.. worked well but my hand got sore setting the Case in the chuck...
So now i set the Lee Case holder in my Drill, use the Lee Trimmer with the Cutter and Ball Grip and trim the case... hit it with inside/outside Lee Chamfer tool... and move to next...




Lot Faster and works great

On the 5.56 Primer pocket... I Got the Lyman prep center, works ok.. then saw a guy using a 3/4 Countersink Bit from Home depot.. Got One... Place it in my drill and Velcro the Trigger on... and go ta town... works perfect and is fast... then use the Lyman Pocket cleaner in my hand and clean Primer pocket if needed


All works well for me..


I also agree with arizona_cards_11
I have a lee Pro 1000 progressive, I use WC844 Bulk Powder which is Similar to H335, works well for me and is inexpensive since i shoot Alot of .223

I clean My Brass..
Then De-prime and size then in one sitting
Clean again to remove sizing component.
Then Ream Primer Pocket if needed
Trim If Needed (do this after about every 2-3 reloads)
Then Ill setp up my Loader... prime and Powder, then Seat Bullet..

I load 1 case at a time, makes it easier to be sure all process are good, I have tried the case feeder a couple times when Priming and Bullet, but to much going on and Mistakes do happen... so only use case feeder when De-priming and Sizing, then i can really blow out some Prepped brass fast.


and Mag_357TX... those trim systems, too me, just take to long to do each Case... check out this , this is basicaly what I do
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsHEynuq3W0

Hope this helps some


Stav

 

[readyeddy]

Pay close attention to the tips on removing the primer crimp. It is by far the most time consuming and for me the most aggravating step in 5.56 reloading. I smashed enough primers trying to reload brass I thought was de-crimped that I just went and bought 1000 pieces of new Lake City brass and boxed up my once fired brass.

Today that's not really an option given the shortage.

Take your time and make sure the crimp is completely removed.

 

[SlowFuse]

For crimped/mil brass I like the press mounted RCBS swager.

On powder I have stuck with two. I like Varget for heavier projectiles (62 gr and up) and H335 for everything else. As said before its pretty much impossible to get an over charge with Varget.

I started using Lee prep tools and have stuck with all of them. The only one I am looking at replacing is the trimming system. If you process lots of brass in one sitting it gets a little irritating even with the drill and lock stud.

Everyone has different things that work for them.

 

[TexasShooter59]

Powders: Win748, TAC, H335

Lyman case prep tools work well.

I used the Lee trimmer for a while, and it was quite frustrating! I spent the money and got a L.E. Wilson trimmer and have never had a complaint. I wish the micrometer version had been around at that time. Also, I use the L.E. Wilson case gage for checking overall length and datum (shoulder) to head length. Even if you don't go with their trimmer, you should seriously consider the case gage; you can check 100 cases very quickly. Better prices can be found at some of the major gun-related online retailers (Midway, Brownells, etc.)

 

[SpentCasing]

I am curious/confused with this also. I get paid on Wednesday and would like to get the case prep items needed for 223 LC mil brass reloading. Its the final items I need to get started.

I know Im going to get the WFT. What else is needed? Is there a complete "kit" I can purchase? Would the Hornady case prep trio (or RCBS) come with the remaining items I need?

I would like to use my drill (like for WFT) or something like the Hornady trio (or RCBS) rather than manual labor is necessary. Thanks!

Items I already have:
bullets
brass
powder
Hornady LnL AP
Hornady FL die set.
Lyman US cleaner

 

[gab909]

To get rid of the primer pocket crimp, I put my chamfering tool in the cordless drill and zip them things out. Tried it by hand, tried the screwdriver, tried the trim pro machines and the drill worked the best for me. BTW I have the CTS and love it. Did a thousand right off the bat so I don't have to mess with that for a little bit.

 

[gamestalker]

Definitely the Lee trimming system, it is the bomb. You use the same cutter and stud for for all the cartridges, and then just buy the case gauge and shell holder for each new cartridge you'll need one for. I think the initial set up cost is around $15. After that each new cartridge you add is only going to run about $8 or $9. They work really well and can be run off a drill press, or a standard cordless drill for much quicker use.

I use a Wilson ream and chamfer tool, the same one I bought some 30 years ago, I don't think they ever get dull. I don't recommend going with the Lee ream and chamfer tool though. I bought one back about the time I got the Wilson, and I have only used it a couple of times, I just don't like the design. It's too easy to accidentally scratch brass when using the ream, especially the shoulders on bottle neck cases.

GS

 

[bigdaa]

Get a good strong decapping insert for your depriming/sizing die. This will save the aggravation of bending this sucker like I have done. Gosh that sucks when you do not have a backup insert!


Also, Hornady One Shot lubricant has never let me down as long as I shook the can often and sprayed all around the brass surface. You can spread the case out on the paper with the case mouth towards you so you get a bit of lube in there for the expander ball.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

1. Primer pocket reaming (for mil brass, small rifle primers

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/235832/rcbs-primer-pocket-swager-combo-2

2. Case trimmer (preferably able to trim more than 1 caliber as I plan to take on more calibers in the future).

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/476992/lee-case-trimmer-cutter-and-lock-stud
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/107333/lee-case-length-gage-and-shellholder-223-remington

I also need some recommendations for powder for loading for an AR15 and also where to find 556/223 bullets.

Not sure about powder, as I don't handload for ARs. I know that IMR 3031 works well for single shots and bolt actions in the caliber. I have heard that BLC2 is good for ARs but no firsthand experience.
Here are some bullets for sale at Natchez.

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cf...ce=pj&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=43737

DONT FORGET, with bottleneck rifle rounds, you must lube the cases to prevent sticking them in the dies. I recommend this.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/519525/imperial-case-sizing-wax-2-oz

Happy loading!

 

[bigdaa]

The loading data for .223 is different than it is for 5.56 NATO due to case thickness. 5.56 are thicker than .223. You need to work up loads from like 5% down from .223 data.

If you use .223 data nearing mid and max, you will overcharge the case and split case mouths and flatten primers.


Metering powder and smooth flow is important. Ball powder is the very best for the task. BLC-2 is a flattened ball powder, and that is second best for metering.

 

[Searcher4851]

For primer pockets, I prefer to swage as opposed to cutting the crimp off. For that process I use the CH4D swaging tool.
http://www.ch4d.com/catalog/case/psk

For case trimming I like the Lee stuff and a drill. Cheap, easy, and effective.

For chamfering and deburring, I use a Lyman combo tool with the drill setup after trimming.

 

[zxcvbob]

The loading data for .223 is different than it is for 5.56 NATO due to case thickness. 5.56 are thicker than .223. You need to work up loads from like 5% down from .223 data.

I don't think they are. It's true that 7.62 military brass is often thicker than its .30 non-mil counterpart.

 

[thump_rrr]

I don't think they are. It's true that 7.62 military brass is often thicker than its .30 non-mil counterpart.

Military brass is thicker in the web area which reduces the internal volume of the case.
You can prove it to yourself by weighing empty cases with a dead primer in them then re-weighing them full of water.

You will see that military cases hold less water weight.

 

[PlaneJain]

Help is appreciated. Any other factor I should consider before actually loading rifle cartridges for the first time, feel free to mention that as well.

Haven't read all the posts, so I don't know if it has been said before, but underloading a rifle cartridge with 'not enough' powder is super dangerous, just as in overloading a pistol cartridge. (But you probably already know that). Be careful, and visually inspect each one before you seat the bullet and crimp.) I do this by placing my tray under a good light and visually inspecting the entire tray full of them to make sure they are at the same levels. Any differences, I redo those.

 

[GLOOB]

1. Primer pocket reaming (for mil brass, small rifle primers)

Buy any countersink that you can chuck in a drill. From ACE or Midway, doesn't matter. This can also be used to do inside chamfer on the case mouth.

2. Case trimmer (preferably able to trim more than 1 caliber as I plan to take on more calibers in the future).

The Lee cutter with ball grip, Lee Zip Trim chuck, Lee Zip Trim chuck spindle adaptor, cordless drill, and pilot for specific caliber is pretty incredible, if you get past the learning curve. With the right technique, the cases "zip" in/out of the chuck, effortlessly. Then after a perfect trim, you can touch the case mouth to your chamfer tools and get a perfect chamfer, taking about 8-9 seconds per case.

A WFT/CTS/Possom Hollow can do it way faster, if you get a trim station with rotating heads for the chamfers or setup an addition drill station or two. But they cost more per caliber and hand discomfort/fatigue can be a factor with those kinds of trimmers.

For true fast-n-easy, you need to step up to motorized systems with 3-way cutters.

 

[Lerk]

I really like my RCBS trimmer and Dillon Super Swager. I have both mounted on a little board, so I just sit and watch tv while I trim and swage brass (of course this is after full length sizing). Can do a few thousand easily depending on how long the movie is and if I'm cruising along or taking my time.