Press questions for new reoader

[mountain_man]

I want to get into reloading and have been researching presses. I will be reloading .380 and 9mm to start, and will hopefully be adding a centerfire rifle cartridge before too long. I can't afford a nice progressive press for the pistol rounds, and am not currently shooting a high enough volume to need a progressive. I have been drawn to the Hornady lock and load classic kit because it allows quick change of dies. I don't want to spend a lot of time changing out dies as I will be reloading 2 cartridges at the same time, and it seems like that would really cut down on productivity.

Are the components in this kit of good enough quality to get me started and to use for a while afterwards?

Would I be better off buying everything separate and make my own kit?

Are there other options that I should be looking at?

 

[rcmodel]

I will be reloading 2 cartridges at the same time

No, you won't.
You might be loading one caliber until you get done, then load the other caliber till you get done.


I think the LnL die change is a marketing gimmick.

Once a set of dies are adjusted to the press, and the lock-rings locked?
They are adjusted forever.
It takes all of 15-20 seconds to screw one die out and screw another die in.

Assuming you load in batches of 100 - 200 rounds?
You size all 100-200 cases, screw the sizing die out and the belling die in.
20 seconds.

After the 100-200 cases are belled, you screw the belling die out and screw the seating die in.
Another 20 seconds.

So you spent less then a minute changing dies while loading 200 rounds.

The other thing is, you have to buy LnL bushings for every die in every caliber you load.
And that can add up to big bucks pretty fast for some of us.

If you don't buy the extra bushings?
You are back to screwing dies in and out of the bushings just like you would have been doing without the LnL feature.

rc

 

[Arkansas Paul]

rcmodel covered it well, as usual.
Don't buy into the hype that changing dies takes a long time. They take a little bit of time the first time you set them. After that, it's less than a minute.

I can't afford a nice progressive press for the pistol rounds

Here is a good alternative to that. It's not a true progressive, but it auto indexes where you on'y touch the brass once and take it from fired brass to loaded round with 3 or 4 pulls of the handle. It's a good setup. You can get more heads for $12 and never have to remove the dies from them.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/814175/lee-classic-4-hole-turret-press

 

[mountain_man]

You are right rcmodel I wont be doing 2 at the same time. I was meaning that I would load one completely then switch out and do the other completely. Thanks for pointing that out though. Also thanks for enlightening me on how long it really takes to swap out the dies, I didn't know that they held their adjustment through switching them out.

That said, are there any better bang for the buck pre-assembled kits I should be looking at?

 

[Dr.Zubrato]

On a side note, in defense of quick change bushings..
I'm a Lee guy, and their locking rings don't have a locking nut, so there is some variability and play depending on how much you tighten down from die to die.
Could be meaningless, could be a mistake if you're redlining your loads.

However, I ONLY use quick change bushings for my seating dies, and rifle resizing dies to maintain consistent COAL and headspace.

 

[mountain_man]

Arkansas Paul: I had seen those but had seen some reviews on google that the index feature on it was prone to breaking. Can anyone comment on this?

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I've had mine for about a year now. I've only loaded a couple thousand rounds but it is showing no signs of wear so far. I load .40, 9mm and .38 Special on it.

 

[Potatohead]

I was pretty much in your situation exactly and I just set up and loaded my first 380s on a Lee Classic Turret Press. You should mos def check it out...I went piece by piece instead of kit. I wouldve gotten the kit but kept hearing the scale sucked..


Oh, I see now that ArkPaul beat me to it, telling you about the LCT...

 

[mountain_man]

What brand scale did you end up with, and how consistent is the powder dispenser?

 

[greyling22]

you want the lee turret press. they have a cheap one and a more expensive one. spend the extra bucks and get the one paul linked. The auto index itself won't break, but there is a plastic wear part that I have to change every 5k rounds or so. It costs maybe 50 cents. You can tear it up early if you try to manually index the press at the wrong part of the stroke, but again, 50 cents.

there are a couple of add-ons to the lee press that really make it shine. The safety prime gizmo and the auto disk powder drop are super.

There is nothing wrong with the lee scale. works great. But for 9 and 380 you won't use it past load development. The auto disk drops charges by volume and is the greatest thing for handgun loading since carbide dies. I've been on lee turret presses for 18 years now and can only praise them. Their single stage press is good but nothing special other than the price, and the loadmaster progressive has some priming issues, but the turret press is the best thing ever for the loading you want to do.

 

[Handgun Shooter]

RCBS rock chucker supreme kit is great. You will use everything in it for a long, long time. Great way to get started.

 

[Lost Sheep]

Arkansas Paul: I had seen those but had seen some reviews on google that the index feature on it was prone to breaking. Can anyone comment on this?

The "Square Ratchet" is supposed to break if you do something wrong with the auto-indexing. This fifty cent part will break to protect more expensive pieces of the press. Think of it as you would an electrical fuse.

There is never any reason for it to break unless you short-stroke the press, manually turn the turret head backwards or force the press when something is jammed.

Would I be better off buying everything separate and make my own kit?

A kit will get you started with MOST of what you need and only a few things that you will wonder, "What did they include this thing for?". If you assemble your own kit, you will take longer to get up to speed and will have worked harder making the selections, but that extra work will pay dividends for years, as you will have studied harder on the loading processes and understand your equipment better than if you you had simply bought a kit assembled for you by some marketing "genius".

It depends on your particular "style" of learning and approach to life. Some will be better served with a kit. Some will be better served building their own kit. For some, it will not matter. Only you know yourself well enough to really tell.

I like the concept of building one's own kit (obviously, from the first paragraph answering the question), but recognize that my answer is not correct for everyone.

Thanks for asking our advice. Welcome to loading.

Lost Sheep

p.s. Check out Kempf's gun shop online. Their kit includes almost nothing you don't want and does include a set of dies, which most kits do not. Do not get the Classic Turret mixed up with the Deluxe Turret. The Classic Turret is far superior. Do not get the Lee Classic Cast press mixed up with the Lee Classic Turret press. Classic Cast is a single stage.

 

[Lost Sheep]

What brand scale did you end up with, and how consistent is the powder dispenser?

A lot of people do not like the Lee Scale, but since it is about one-half to one-third of the price of a REALLY easy-to-use scale, many learn to love it. The more expensive balance-beam scales (the vast majority are built by Ohaus, no matter what nameplate is on them) have agate jewel bearings and are easy to read. The Lee Safety Scale is lighter-weight and has a vernier for reading tenths of grains, which many people have no idea how to use.

But the Lee scale is as accurate as any of the others.

Lee makes two powder measures. The Auto-Disk comes in two variants, Standard and Pro and either will mount atop the Lee Powder-Through case-mouth belling die. The Lee Perfect Powder Measure is designed as a standalone measure.

Almost all powder measures work better with some powders than with others. There are flake powders, ball powders, flattened ball powders, stick powders. Most of us learned by trial and error which powder to pair with what measure.

In 2010 I repopulated my loading bench with (almost) all new gear after 35 years. Here is my story. (Subtitle: If I knew in '75 what I know now)

http://rugerforum.net/reloading/293...you-will-never-outgrow-novice-handloader.html
rugerforum.net/reloading/29385-budget-beginning-bench-you-will-never-outgrow.html

Lost Sheep

 

[balderclev]

No, you won't.
You might be loading one caliber until you get done, then load the other caliber till you get done.


I think the LnL die change is a marketing gimmick.

Once a set of dies are adjusted to the press, and the lock-rings locked?
They are adjusted forever.
It takes all of 15-20 seconds to screw one die out and screw another die in.

Assuming you load in batches of 100 - 200 rounds?
You size all 100-200 cases, screw the sizing die out and the belling die in.
20 seconds.

After the 100-200 cases are belled, you screw the belling die out and screw the seating die in.
Another 20 seconds.

So you spent less then a minute changing dies while loading 200 rounds.

The other thing is, you have to buy LnL bushings for every die in every caliber you load.
And that can add up to big bucks pretty fast for some of us.

If you don't buy the extra bushings?
You are back to screwing dies in and out of the bushings just like you would have been doing without the LnL feature.

rc

+1 on the marketing gimmick. I bought the LNL and am now locked into it. I'm loading 3 pistol calibers and 3 rifles. Besides the fact that after buying a dozen adapters for the LNL and still not having enough, they will only fit with the dies attached in the Hornady boxes. As I have dies from various manufacturers, I have to rubber band the boxes. Now I just leave them off and readjust when I use them. PITA for sure.

 

[Potatohead]

There is never any reason for it to break unless you short-stroke the press, manually turn the turret head backwards or force the press when something is jammed

Lost, I thought it was ok to short stroke the LCT...maybe this depends on the definition of short stroke

 

[grubbylabs]

If I were buying a kit, I would by Hornady or RCBS, If I was going to buy a press on its own and all the stuff separately. The Hornady,RCBS, and Lee make some really nice presses, but in my opinion not everything Lee makes is worth getting. Most of it is inexpensive for a reason.

I would get a good balance beam scale, electronic ones are nice and work well, but unless it plugs into a wall, you will need to keep batteries on hand. Plus it is nice to have a balance beam scale to check your digital one against.

A good powder measure (Hornady or RCBS or other made from something other than plastic.) is nice to have. The Lee scoops work out awesome, even though I have a powder measure I still keep some on hand.

And be sure to get multiple books. I like the idea of having a bullet manufacturers book and a book from someone who uses multiple kind of bullets. I have not looked through the Lee book but most people around here like it. I like Hornady Speer and Lyman books. But that's just me.

 

[Potatohead]

What brand scale did you end up with, and how consistent is the powder dispenser?

If that was directed to me, I got the pro auto (the one that comes with the kit) measure. But I got a Lyman 500 beam scale and also an electronic (Lyman micro touch). The powder measure works great, straight out of the box. And if I can set it up and get it working, you will be able to also

 

[Potatohead]

On a side note, in defense of quick change bushings..
I'm a Lee guy, and their locking rings don't have a locking nut, so there is some variability and play depending on how much you tighten down from die to die.
Could be meaningless, could be a mistake if you're redlining your loads.

However, I ONLY use quick change bushings for my seating dies, and rifle resizing dies to maintain consistent COAL and headspace.

The Lee lock rings are quite terrible IMO. I ordered some RCBS ones.

 

[Potatohead]

If I were buying a kit, I would by Hornady or RCBS, If I was going to buy a press on its own and all the stuff separately. The Hornady,RCBS, and Lee make some really nice presses, but in my opinion not everything Lee makes is worth getting. Most of it is inexpensive for a reason.

I would get a good balance beam scale, electronic ones are nice and work well, but unless it plugs into a wall, you will need to keep batteries on hand. Plus it is nice to have a balance beam scale to check your digital one against.

A good powder measure (Hornady or RCBS or other made from something other than plastic.) is nice to have. The Lee scoops work out awesome, even though I have a powder measure I still keep some on hand.

And be sure to get multiple books. I like the idea of having a bullet manufacturers book and a book from someone who uses multiple kind of bullets. I have not looked through the Lee book but most people around here like it. I like Hornady Speer and Lyman books. But that's just me.

I think you hit it on the head in the first paragraph Grubbs

 

[Rule3]

If you want a true single stage kit. IMO the RCBS RockChucker is the best deal (when on sale) there is no "junk" in this kit and it will all last several lifetimes. Warrantied for life also.

If you want to spend less money and produce ammo a bit faster, the Lee CLASSIC Turret kit is good but get a different scale. The Lee scale works but is a PITA to use.

It's al a matter of how much ammo you need and the size of your wallet, there are many long threads on this and its, Ford or Chevy kinda thing

Of course there are many other ones and there are lots of other "stuff" you will need.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/937051/rcbs-rock-chucker-supreme-master-single-stage-press-kit

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/785993/lee-4-hole-turret-press-with-auto-index-deluxe-kit

 

[frankenstein406]

Go with a lee classic cast turret, you won't regret it!.

 

[Lost Sheep]

Lost, I thought it was ok to short stroke the LCT...maybe this depends on the definition of short stroke

Well, yes, it is OK to short stroke the press. But not all the time.

Every once in a while, particularly when you are at the twisted part of the indexing rod, short-stroking can jam things up-that's when things get broke.

Most of the time you are OK. Once in a while, not so much.

Lost Sheep

 

[Lost Sheep]

The Lee lock rings are quite terrible IMO. I ordered some RCBS ones.

Of the three basic types of locking rings, everyone has their preference.

The Lee friction-fit with the "O" ring, the RCBS type with the set screw that engages the threads on the die (either directly, with a lead pellet or a plastic pellet) or my preferred, the Split-ring as used by Hornady.

I find the Lee rings usable. I find the Split rings the most secure. And the RCBS type my least preferred. But that, by no means, casts doubt on your preference.

Lost Sheep

 

[ranger335v]

My main press has beena Rock Chucker sonce '87. It's an okay press but it lacks the nice user features of Lee's Classic Cast. If I had to replace my green RC tomorrow it would be red; I have no meaningless loyalty to inanimate objects and the CC is the better single stage of it's type available today.

While I don't luv Lee's lock rings they sure don't give me any problems, dies only adjust in one plane and it's not very hard to accomplish.

Costly die quick-change gimmicks don't give me any warm fuzzy feelings. Hand tight is plenty tight for dies and I can easly screw exchange them in 45 seconds without hurrying, it's not a laborious task. Bottle neck dies have two in a set, straight walls get three; even if quick-change bushings made swaps instaneous I wouldn't save much time in a normal two hour loading session.

 

[jerkface11]

If you get a Forster Co-Ax you don't even need to screw the dies in. They just slide into the front of the press.