Preventively shooting a bear

[Chartwell]

I'd like the help of The High Road community in addressing a hunting ethics question. I want to hunt and shoot a specific bear for an important family safety reason within the hunting laws of my state but I'd like advice on whether I'm doing anything against hunting ethics and whether the path I'm thinking of pursuing will ultimately be effective in making my family safer from bears.

I've never hunted but I've got guns for self defense (including a Remington 870 12 ga. shotgun capable of firing a rifled slug) and I'm comfortable with hunting and have led an outdoorsy life (hiker, old Eagle Scout, etc.), and I know local hunters I can get help from.

I live in a rural area with my wife and we have a 2-year-old child. Black bears are an increasing presence in our forested region (no brown bears), enough so that in this low-gun-ownership area, people who enjoy the outdoors are starting to worry about what to do if they confront a bear; and there have been a couple of bear incidents reported in the press where people confronted a bear (but escaped without injury). In one case, a 10 year old boy ran out of his house's back door without looking outside and found himself 10 feet from a bear sow (with cubs) that was in his backyard.

We have seen plenty of bear sign on our property within yards of our backyard where our 2-year-old son plays in the morning or afternoon under supervision. Our trash cans have been raided by bears. We've seen a 400+ pound black bear on the edge of the forest on our property 3 times (probably the same one, hard to tell). Rotten trees near our house have been heavily scratched up to a level above 7 feet, almost certainly by a bear. I mowed a field on Saturday and noticed a patch of blackberry bushes. On Sunday, I took my 2-year old son to the spot and we picked blackberries for 2 hours. Then I noticed fresh bear scat next to the blackberry bushes and on top of the mowed grass -- the bear had been to the blackberry bushes since I had mowed the area the day before and could be still nearby or even watching us. I wasn't armed and had a 2-year-old child with me; if the bear had confronted us, we could not have quickly made it back safely to our home.

It's very important to me that I be able to raise my son in an outdoorsy way without fear of bear attacks (however remote), especially in our own backyard, field, and forest trails. I've taken steps to eliminate bear attractants (took down bird feeder, moved lidded trash cans from outside house to inside garage, gotten bear bells to pin on clothing for all walks outdoors, and other steps). Nevertheless, the possibility still exists that a bear could confront me, me and my son, my wife and my son, etc., during our daily routine.

We could live in fear, not go out in to the woods, keep a lookout for bears at all hours, stay within a couple dozen yards of home, severely restrict where our child can go as he grows up, etc. In addition to that, I could carry my self defense sidearm (Glock .40 caliber) -- an option for me personally but not or my wife and child.

Another possible course of action has occurred to me that I am contemplating and want advice on. I could instead hunt and shoot that bear that I saw. I want to kill the bear (and others like it if need be) preventively. I'll only do this through the proper legal hunting channels.

My plan is to learn to hunt through the state's hunter education program and my hunting friends and to enter the state's lottery for black bear licenses. The chance of winning such a license is ~50%. If I win the license, I'll go hunting during bear season with my shotgun loaded with slugs and try to find and shoot the bear in order to prevent it from threatening my family.

This potential plan raises several issues:
1. I don't plan to eat the bear and would rather not do so. Do I absolutely have to eat what I shoot? Can this be easily addressed by giving the bear to someone else?
2. Is hunting a bear for this specific purpose less legitimate than hunting a bear just to hunt? Should I be "learning to live with wildlife" instead of trying to shoot this bear?
3. I don't want to go on a long, epic hunt for the chance of a shot at a bear. Instead, I want to be certain I'll find the bear on my property (or on the hunt-able land next door) quickly and be certain of shooting it. What can I ethically do to accelerate the process? Can I bait? I don't particularly want a fair fight -- I want zero risk to me; what can I do to eliminate risk to me?
4. Could I get this bear categorized as a "problem animal" which I can just shoot instead of having to pursue within the laws and ethics of hunting?
5. Will hunting this one bear during this one season (and future bears with future licenses in future seasons) do any good? Will it keep the bear presence within a couple of miles of my home "down"? Or will the niche be quickly filled with other bears, making my efforts futile?

Sincerely,

Chartwell

 

[TAB]

You may want to talk to your local animal control as well as your state fish and game dept. They may come out and remove the bear.

 

[ants]

Chartwell, welcome to the Forum. As TAB notes, a nuisance animal is one thing and animal control may be the best party to take care of it. Hunting is another thing altogether.

Hunting takes skill, especially if there is one particular individual you wish to take. If you have no skills and you don't wish to take years to develop the skill and knowledge required, you can hire a guide. The guide will probably help you answer all the questions you post. Good folks hunt with guides all the time. That's probably the best option for you.

However, hunting one particular animal is like saying you want to swat and kill one particular mosquito that's bothering you. Once you kill that one, you won't solve your problem. Others will move quickly into the territory.

Finally, killing a bear isn't the only solution to living with bears. Humans have coexisted with bears safely for 40 or 50 thousand years. Your family can do the same.

 

[Acera]

Chartwell, I will address one of you concerns, number 3. If you want bears or any other animal to leave, don't provide it food or bait it. You may get the bear you want, but you will probably get others also. That I see as unethical, bringing bears in, then complaining they are a nuance and having them removed.

If you and you young child are going into a known bear area, and collecting known bear food (berries) and all you bring are bells..............Well that does not seem kosher with your boy scout motto of always prepared. You should have known better than to put yourself and child in danger like that.

You seem to want justification for blasting this one bear you have an issue with. It's the woods, this is where bear and other animals do their thing. Your development is encroaching on their habitat, it is not their fault for being there.

Don't let you blood lust cloud your judgment, and for gods sake take some common sense approaches to you and your families safety.

 

[Larry E]

You don't say where you're from, but in Montana it's strictly forbidden to bait game animals or feed them. If you do and then shoot the bear you could be in serious trouble. Since bears are usually considered game animals I'd call the fish and game department and ask for their assistance/advice.

As was mentioned by Acera, don't leave food out that bears will eat - they seem to eat everything too. No dog or cat food, no grain for livestock, and if you go out picking berries get some bear spray and check with the game department about what's considered self defense. In Montana it's legal for a person to protect themselves, other people, and their animals/livestock from attack with lethal force, unless of course it's a wolf or grizzly that's trying to eat your dog, cat, sheep, horse, cattle, or other animals.

 

[Rob62]

Interesting post. To try and answer your specific questions.


1. I don't plan to eat the bear and would rather not do so. Do I absolutely have to eat what I shoot? Can this be easily addressed by giving the bear to someone else?

Many people do not eat Bears but "hunt" them for Sport/Trophy purposes and population control. You need to check your state game laws if they classify Bear meat as edible meat that needs to be removed or harvested from the field. There would be nothing unethical about giving away the Bear meat or the complete Bear - again making sure that this complies with state law.

2. Is hunting a bear for this specific purpose less legitimate than hunting a bear just to hunt? Should I be "learning to live with wildlife" instead of trying to shoot this bear?

I don't believe there is anything unethical about what you are thinking of doing. However as has already been mentioned. I would talk to your local Game Warden first about your situation and seek their help in removing this Bear.

3. I don't want to go on a long, epic hunt for the chance of a shot at a bear. Instead, I want to be certain I'll find the bear on my property (or on the hunt-able land next door) quickly and be certain of shooting it. What can I ethically do to accelerate the process? Can I bait? I don't particularly want a fair fight -- I want zero risk to me; what can I do to eliminate risk to me?

Baiting would again depend on your state law. As has been pointed out, in your specific situation it is IMHO not advisable to Bait. Baiting basically attracts animals, in this case Bears, something you are overall trying to avoid -and actually do the opposite of.

4. Could I get this bear categorized as a "problem animal" which I can just shoot instead of having to pursue within the laws and ethics of hunting?

I think you could. You would have to check with your local Game Warden first. Specially if the Bear has shown any aggressive behavior. As an example. Does the Bear not shy away when people are near. Does it seem curious when you or your son is in the yard. Does it not run away when someone makes a loud noise.

5. Will hunting this one bear during this one season (and future bears with future licenses in future seasons) do any good? Will it keep the bear presence within a couple of miles of my home "down"? Or will the niche be quickly filled with other bears, making my efforts futile?

No. All the removal of one Bear will do is create a vacuum that other Bears will move into. How long that will take depends on a variety of things such as Bear density, Bear food supply and Urbanization just to name a few things.

Overall the BEST thing to do is to talk with your local Game Warden or Game Agency folks. Tell them your concerns and get their input.

In the mean time as a stop gap measure keep a can of Bear Repellant (Pepper Spray) handy. As far as I know this is legal in all 50 states.

Any chance you want to share where you are ? (New Jersey, maybe??)

Regards,
Rob

 

[thunder173]

I agree with Tab and Ants,..you should get some advice from your local animal control folks, or state fish and game folks. Another option may be to have somebody that IS an experienced bear hunter come take it out, ....duly licensed of course. Going on your own, to deliberately hunt a bear is not something I'd recommend for a novice. Get some guidance,...get a guide,...get some help. Now speaking as a "Double Eagle" dad, a Scouter of more than 50 years,...and a Scouting professional,....if you are out and about in an environment where there are bear,...be smart,...and of course,..DO "Be Prepared" .....get some guidance from folks that know bear, ...AND the game laws in your state,....and DO take whatever reasonable precautions you can to keep yourself and your family safe.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

It's very important to me that I be able to raise my son in an outdoorsy way without fear of bear attacks (however remote), especially in our own backyard, field, and forest trails. I've taken steps to eliminate bear attractants (took down bird feeder, moved lidded trash cans from outside house to inside garage, gotten bear bells to pin on clothing for all walks outdoors, and other steps). Nevertheless, the possibility still exists that a bear could confront me, me and my son, my wife and my son, etc., during our daily routine.

We could live in fear, not go out in to the woods, keep a lookout for bears at all hours, stay within a couple dozen yards of home, severely restrict where our child can go as he grows up, etc. In addition to that, I could carry my self defense sidearm (Glock .40 caliber) -- an option for me personally but not or my wife and child.

Another possible course of action has occurred to me that I am contemplating and want advice on. I could instead hunt and shoot that bear that I saw. I want to kill the bear (and others like it if need be) preventively. I'll only do this through the proper legal hunting channels.

In my usual, pedantic way, I am going to refrain from directly responding to your question while respectfully questioning your entire line of thinking.

You wrote that you want to raise your son in an "outdoorsy" way, without "fear" of a bear attack.

You also wrote that there are bears in the neighborhood.

Do you really think that Daniel Boone or Davey Crockett would have set out to raise their sons in an "outdoorsy" way by blasting all the bears within walking distance of their cabins? What you are trying to do, it seems, is to raise your son in an artificially (perceived) hazard-free outdoor environment that will ill prepare him should he even find himself somewhere that Dad has not neatly removed all the wild animals.

If you really want to raise your son in an "outdoorsy" way, you might consider teaching him to respect wild animals. It isn't just bears that can do him harm, you know. Dunno where you are, but at the range the other day we were discussing how prevalent coyotes have become in this state over the past ten years, where there were NONE when I was a kid. A rabid fox or raccoon can do a job on a youngster, too.

Rather than turn your son into a fauna bubble kid, why not teach him about the truth that there are some people who eat animals, and some animals that eat people. That's what is, and my Zen teacher used to harangue us that "What is, is." You won't really be protecting your son (long term) by offing one neighborhood bear.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

 

[DaleA]

Addressing your concern #1, if you go with the hunting option, do you know how to field dress a bear?

 

[Chartwell]

Further thoughts on preventively shooting a bear

Hey, it's Chartwell here, the guy with the bear problem.

I've gotten a lot of good, thoughtful replies so far. I will definitely talk to a local game warden re the issue. If I do wind up hunting the bear, I'll do it with a friend with deep hunting experience or even a bear guide.

Since several people asked, I'm in small town western Massachusetts. We've had black bears here a long time but they are getting more numerous and less afraid of people.

Large parts of New England are depopulating and reforesting and becoming an outdoorsman's paradise. We also are in the middle of a return of the moose to the area. The fisher cat is also returning. The coyote showed up not too long ago and is thoroughly entrenched. There have always been lots of foxes. The beaver is back. There are rumors of wolves and mountain lions, but those are probably dogs and bobcats -- no proven sightings.

 

[Treo]

We could live in fear, not go out in to the woods, keep a lookout for bears at all hours, stay within a couple dozen yards of home,

I live in Colorado , I can't remember the last time I went into the woods and didn't have a run in W/ a bear. I'm still here so I assume they can be lived W/. If you live in prime bearhabitat you are going to have bears. If you kill the one you have now you are going to have others.

You are pertially responsible for your situation by leaving the trash out.

I reccomend a book called "Bear Aware" your local DWL should have copies for sale there is a whole list of things you can do to avoid bear problems W/out firing a shot.

It's very important to me that I be able to raise my son in an outdoorsy way without fear of bear attacks (however remote),

Great but going about it by teaching him to kill anything that gets in his way ain't the way to do it.

 

[Rob62]

Just checked your game laws reference Black Bears.

http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/regulations/plain_language/hunting_bear.htm

Some interesting info there. FWIW - You can not legally hunt Black Bears with a shotgun or Bait. (But you can use a .357 Magnum revolver using .357 Magnum cartridges, or a revolver .40 caliber or larger - Who would have thought of that?!)

Rob

 

[JCMAG]

Large parts of New England are depopulating and reforesting and becoming an outdoorsman's paradise. We also are in the middle of a return of the moose to the area. The fisher cat is also returning. The coyote showed up not too long ago and is thoroughly entrenched. There have always been lots of foxes. The beaver is back. There are rumors of wolves and mountain lions, but those are probably dogs and bobcats -- no proven sightings.

That's great news!

Man and bear have indeed coexisted for many, many years. It was accomplished by, periodically, reminding the bear who the boss was. Throughout most of our history, this was okie dokie, primarily because the bears would tromp about elsewhere in the seemingly endless wilderness which we could hardly encroach.

That has changed. We, the landlords of our earthly paradise, have deigned it necessary to maintain balance in our environment by pairing down animal populations to better meet the supply and territory available by what wilderness remains to them. If the bears find the wild no longer suitable for their habitation, or their numbers go greater than their habitation can maintain them, then they should be harvested for sport or dinner.

It stinks, particularly to admit that both the wildernesses have become limited and shrinking as well as we are responsible for maintaining an amicable relationship with the wilderness and her critters in exchange for the land that we have taken from it.

As said before, respect the critters (as you seem to do) and educate your son on how to actively respect mother nature (make a wide berth of dangerous animals, etc.), and life should be good for you and all the richer for it.

If the bear through his industry indicates that he would not like to live in the wild but instead romp about your neighborhood, you may need to remind brother bear who the boss is. I'd recommend a stout rifle.

 

[moooose102]

i also agree that reporting the bear to the the wildlife division as a nuicence bear is your first best bet. if the bear are raiding your trash cans, they are definatly a nuisance bear! if they, or animal control can, or will not help you with this, then you may have to hunt, or have another person hunt the bear. yes, imo, it is definitly ok to hunt the bear(s) for the safety of you and yours! no, you do not have to eat it, there is (at least in my state) an orgiization, i think it is sportsmen against hunger, where you can donate the animal for charity distribution. also, if you do not win in the lottery to hunt, you could advertise that you have a bear that needs to be removed, and that anyone with a bear permit can have access to your property to shoot it ( although, that may be kind of risky). as far as future bear encounters go, it really depends on where you live, AND how many bears are in your area. where i live, i ocaisoinally hear about bear, but in 15 years, i have never seen one, nor any sign of them. i do get out into the woods on a weekly basis, so i do get out there, but, where i live and trek, our bear population is very low. in the meanyime, i would get everyone in your household a can of bear spray. i have no experience with it, but from what i have read, it seems to work. if you consider this, ask your wild life department if it really works. they will at least give you an honest, unbiased opinion. i wish you all the luck in the world with this. i hope you can make this problem go away sucessfully, with nobody getting hurt.

 

[tigre]

As has been said, if this is actually a problem bear, there is a protocol and you need to talk with your local wildlife agency. I'm thinking they may not want you hunting it in that case, but the bear can probably be relocated or otherwise dispatched by someone from the agency.

If it's a problem just because it's a bear, you're either going to have to get used to it or move somewhere else, because you live where the bears are. Seeing bear sign on or near your property is not an emergency, it's something that should be expected. Keep your property clean of anything that smells remotely like food, don't do anything to attract them, and talk to your neighbors about doing the same. That last one is really important - you'd be surprised how many people think it's really cute to feed wild animals (I've seen people feeding wild alligators down here) or are just careless or ignorant. Black bear attacks on humans aren't common, despite their numbers. They're generally more likely to run away or go up a tree than come after you. All they want are the berries. Or the cat food. Whatever they can find to eat, really. It's when people get mixed up in a bear's all-consuming quest for food that things can get sketchy.

One question though, why isn't being armed an option for your wife?

 

[jbrown50]

In the urban area that I reside all we get are dear, racoons, opossums, feral dogs and the ocassional fox. Within the wooded area that I love to sometimes hike through every once in a while I'll notice the signs of a black bear. So far this year I saw a 250lb or so black bear far of in the distance in a ravene. Other people have reported black bear sightings too but so far no attacks or close calls, just the occasional trash can raid reported by some of the nearby home owners.

In my pocket I carry a lightweight S&W M&P 360, loaded with 158 gr. .357 magnum Gold Dots, with me all of the time. It's not the ideal gun for a black bear attack but it will be very effective in case of an emergency and is a gun that is light enough and small enough to have with me all of the time.

It's highly unlikely that you or your family will ever be attacked by a black bear. The majority of the time they'll sense our presense and leave the area. You're more likely to encounter bad humans, feral dogs or maybe a smaller rabid animal. Just remember that animals are very quick. If one decides to attack you or a family member it will happen very fast. You need to be prepared to respond quickly just in case.

 

[Travis McGee]

FWIW, here's another dos centavos. I just saw a show on one of the science channels about a lady who gets problem bears to leave areas by "aversion therapy." She has a number of "tools" such as paintball guns that fire pepper spray rounds, and a really cool plastic pistol that fires what look like long 12 guage flares, but act like bottle rockets. That is, they fire with a whistling screech and go BOOM at the end. Between the pepper balls and the bottle rocket rounds, the bears start to hate your property. They just associate it with all around misery.

Hope that helps. But I'd back whatever method you chose, if the safety of your children was at stake.

 

[slabuda]

I am not sure it would even work as bears are a massive creature and seem pretty pain tolerant, plus it may be quite expensive depending upon the size of your property. But what about an electric fence? This way your family and the wildlife could hopefully co-exist in relative harmony keeping some distance between bears and humans.

In many places now there are people trying to "train" bears that they should stay away from humans. Using dogs and explosives (air blast shotguns rounds?) and it does seem to work.

Motion sensors attached to very loud speakers of barking dogs maybe?

I dont really hunt. Only ever hunted pheasants and doves and trapped small game before I joined the military. ALWAYS wanted to, but being in Europe almost all of my time in the military or deployed during hunting seasons with no hunting mentor has kept me from giving it a go. So please dont think of me as anti-hunting. I try to live my life as a true conservationist/naturalist like Issac Walton, Darwin or even a modern equivalent of David Attenborough.
I personally wouldnt want to hunt something I couldnt eat (like bear/cougar/bobcat) but would not be against killing if indeed it posed a threat to me my family or property if I was a rancher etc.

Good luck and I hope you find a outcome suitable for man and beast.

 

[tigre]

FWIW, here's another dos centavos. I just saw a show on one of the science channels about a lady who gets problem bears to leave areas by "aversion therapy." She has a number of "tools" such as paintball guns that fire pepper spray rounds, and a really cool plastic pistol that fires what look like long 12 guage flares, but act like bottle rockets. That is, they fire with a whistling screech and go BOOM at the end. Between the pepper balls and the bottle rocket rounds, the bears start to hate your property. They just associate it with all around misery.

I've heard of this as well, and it sounds like it works. Even just clanging pots and pans or making other loud harsh sounds when they come around has apparently been helpful for some people. If you can train them to come to your property through food association you should also be able to train them to stay away with scary noises.

I've also read reports that the bells don't work all that well because it's a pleasant and interesting sound. Supposedly noises like clapping and talking are more effective in warning them that you're there without arousing their natural curiosity. No first hand experience, though.

 

[jobu07]

Blackbear are indeed becoming a serious nuisance in the Northeast. I've heard of predators and scavengers alike venturing into more urban areas as food becomes scarcer. As much of it is food, I think the bigger part of it is lack of hunting.

I'm originally from Western NY and go home frequently to visit. My last visit home, July, a local family had a very close encounter with a blackbear. The offending bear actually broke in through the family's screen door at night, walked into their pantry, and carried a 50 pound sack of birdseed back out. Upon calling the DEC officials told the family to lock thier doors and not shoot the animal. Pretty harsh advice I thought!

My folks have all the tell tale signs as well. Knocked over bird feeders, scratched up trees, burning barrel knocked over, trash rummaged through. What have you. The bear has been seen in the act and seen as close as the back porch. Definately not a great situation to be in, even as comical as it is sometimes.

The aforementioned situations are becoming increasingly more and more common for rural, suburban, and urban families alike in the Northeast. We need to get out and hunt more. It's sad, though, to think if you shot an intruding bear you'd possibly face punishment versus shooting a two-legged home invader.

If you contact fish and game officials, you might likely get the same line about not confronting or shooting the animal. You might even get told to take down your bird feeders and move all of your potential bear food inside. For all the good that does if the beast breaks in! It's also a shame that if you live in bear turf you have to take your bird feeders down...

An aunt and uncle of mine from the same region of the state were having the same issues, of course. She baked a cake and filled it full of peppers and obscenely hot spices then left it out for their late night visitor. He hasn't come back since. Another aunt/uncle combo around the same area scared off a problem bear with a light load of 12 guage bird shot. That most likely didn't even punch through the hide of the bear, but it probably stung a little bit That guy did come back, however, and still terrorizes the bird feeders.

One last example. A friend of mine who lives not far (suprise!) from, the same region, has a rather large lab. A black bear came down into their yard from the woods one day and said lab raced up to the bear and started barking rather loudly in the direction of the bear from the distance of about two feet. The bear kinda looked at him like he was nuts and went about his business, eatting berries and knocking over stuff that he shouldn't knock over.

If you can take the bear legitimately during big game season, great. If you can't, well, weigh your options carefully and remembr who's higher on the food chain

 

[Mickstix]

Black bear attacks on humans aren't common, despite their numbers. They're generally more likely to run away or go up a tree than come after you. All they want are the berries. Or the cat food. Whatever they can find to eat, really. It's when people get mixed up in a bear's all-consuming quest for food that things can get sketchy.

+1 Do as the other poster suggested and read up on bears and the general wildlife in your area.. I'd presonally be more affraid of the moose than the black bears.. (But I'd not suggest going on a moose hunt either)

 

[myrockfight]

Bottom line - call the game warden or animal control. That way you can cover your arse by trying to get them to do something about it. Even if they take no action you WILL have: The name of the person you talked to (hopefully multiple people), when you spoke to them, what office they work in, and if the call is recorded and the record of your call is put on paper. Tell them you would like them to send you a written statement of their decision, if they do not come out and capture the bear for deportation.

That way, if you do have to shoot the animal for threat of your life or your family's, you will be on record as such. Just CYA.


Like Tigre said - Why is carrying not an option for your wife? You obviously view it as a necessity by now. Why not teach her how to shoot safely? It would be good for her to know how to for her own good in the long run anyway.


Good luck, no matter what option you choose. I just don't want to see you get in trouble for taking care of a "pest".

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

i laughed at "aversion therapy" till i tried it. i use 12 guage stinger rounds to great effect. have never had to shoot the same bear twice. my daughters greatest animal memories are all about the bears we see. your child might enjoy em too.

 

[mp510]

1. I don't plan to eat the bear and would rather not do so. Do I absolutely have to eat what I shoot? Can this be easily addressed by giving the bear to someone else?

Many areas have programs like Hunters for the Hungry, that allow unwanted game meat to be donated for indigent consumption. Check with your local DNR.

 

[geologist]

Checking your local laws and hunting regs before proceeding is good advice.

My experience in work camps in the Canadian and Russian bush is that it is VERY important to not allow bears to get food from you or your residence/camp. Once they associate you with food, they will be back. The general consensus in the Canadian bush is to run a VERY clean camp with respect to food storage, preparation, consumption and waste disposal. If after all that they still manage to get food from your camp then have them re-located if possible otherwise opt for a more permanent solution.