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Price is MORE with a Credit Card? - No dice!

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Rezin, Jan 11, 2006.

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  1. Rezin

    Rezin Member

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    Did you know it is agaist Visa and M/C policy to charge an extra fee for accepting a credit card? I noticed a few of the big shops in my area trying to do this, or requiring a minimum purchace (which is also against the merchant aggreement they signed.

    Targetmasters around here lost a sale for that. I wanted a Walther P99 they had. They wanted 3% MORE to use my debit card. They lost the sale.


    I also see a lot on gunbroker sellers doing it too. Why pay an extra 2-3% on a gun?

    Report em!!! This is not permitted! 1-800-VISA-911
     
  2. mtnbkr

    mtnbkr Member

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    No no, you're not paying MORE for credit card purchases, you're getting a DISCOUNT for cash.

    At least that's how it's phrased at the gun or computer shows I've been to.

    Chris
     
  3. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    I agree that its pretty crappy to do this and I won't buy from someone who does it but I had no idea it is against their agreement with the CC companies.

    They do it because the CC companies charge them 2-3%.

    Too many curmudgeons in the gun business if ya ask me. :scrutiny:
     
  4. waterhouse

    waterhouse Member

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    Did you know that it costs more to accept the use of a credit card? the 2.9% doesn't go into my pocket, it goes to the credit card company.

    I could mark all of my guns at "credit card price" and then everyone could pay that, whether they used cash or not. This being America and all, I like to give my customers a choice. Most tend to pay with cash or a money order to avoid this fee, and they don't seem to mind doing it. I don't "mark them up" for credit, I offer a discount for paying with cash.

    You did the right thing . . .if you don't like the way a company does business, take your money somewhere else. But please understand why things are the way that they are.
     
  5. browningguy

    browningguy Member

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    Heaven forbid that a capitalist pig store owner would try to cover their costs!

    They should sell us everything at wholesale and throw in all the extras, heck, I've even had some of these hateful, unappreciative business owners want to charge for shipping the firearm to me. :)
     
  6. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim Member

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    My favorite gunshop owner gave me his very best price knowing I would pay cash. I am sure if I started dropping a credit card on his counter the quoted prices would go up.

    Pilgrim
     
  7. Rezin

    Rezin Member

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    I too own a business.

    That 3% is calculated in my figures, since if someone reports me for the fee, I'll lose my privleges. Credit Cards fees are MY LARGEST expense every month. But the agreement you signed says you CAN NOT IMPOSE FEES OR MINIMUMS FOR ACCEPTANCE OF CREDIT CARDS.

    You wanna cover that fee, better raise your price (cash too), or eat the loss. That's the way it goes. And from what I understand, the cash discount will be erased by new leagalese in the future contracts, so the cash discount will vanish too. One Price is the CC Companies goal.

    Hell, you can't even check their ID for credit cards if they are signed (I think that too is stupid) but it's not MY policy.

    So lay off the brash comments. I thought this was the HIGH ROAD. and I am a business owner (Who has to suck up the fees too)
     
  8. Rockrivr1

    Rockrivr1 Member

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    My favorite gun store will always give a lower price if you pay with cash or a check. I understand this and bring cash with me to get the better price. I figure that at least he's not trying to charge me the 3% no matter if I bring cash or not. I would bet that all large scale stores work the 3% into their prices figuring most people do not carry cash anymore. No discount if you pay cash though. It's how the world works. I want my gun store to stay open, so I have no problems with him operating like this.

    Hell, it makes me feel better thinking I got a discount. ;)
     
  9. Technosavant

    Technosavant Member

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    3% isn't much, but it can add up. Even on relatively inexpensive guns, that 3% can be a box or two of ammo. BUT, depending on your credit card, you may receive the following:

    Cash rebate
    Rewards points
    Frequent flier miles
    Extended warranty
    Fraud protection
    Convenience
    Security

    The seller gets the money- no worries about bouncing checks or counterfeit bills. No trips to the bank with lots of cash. No worries about misplacing a slip of paper. The financial risk is entirely assumed by the issuing bank (Citibank for mine). The buyer gets perks (see above), no worries about waiting for a check to clear, having to carry lots of cash, or the like.

    Yes, the few percentage points add up. But no shops around me advertise any discount for cash. I have no reason to NOT use a credit card. I can understand those who do give a cash discount; if the buyer does not like it, he or she can try to find a better price with the card, pay cash and get the discount, or just pay the full amount. Annoying, but there ain't no law against annoying.
     
  10. wheelgunslinger

    wheelgunslinger Member

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    You want the privilege of being able to use your credit card, but want your gun store to suck up another 3% after you mention that you can "get that off the internet" for less and beat them down on their price? That's just rude and lacking in class.

    Sure, it's against their merchant agreement, but I don't care. I'd like to keep a small gun shop around. God knows I've wasted enough gun shop employee's time looking at various ones that I'd be embarrassed to beg out of the 3%.

    :fire:
     
  11. waterhouse

    waterhouse Member

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    I do not think any comments I made were brash or non "High Road".

    You seemed surprised in your initial post that this practice occurs. I was trying to explain to you why it occurs. The fact that you were already aware of the things I typed does not make what I typed brash.

    You state that you build the 3% into your prices, and that it is your biggest expense every month. I would argue that it is your customers' biggest expense every month. I offer my customers the option to be shielded from this expense, and I see nothing wrong with keeping their cost down.
     
  12. thatguy

    thatguy Member

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    Rezin- The retailer must pay about 3% on the purchase to use the card. Most dealers just eat this or pad their prices to cover. Some expect the customer to pay for the convenience of using the card. If you don't want to pay the extra 3% then use cash or check. Sorry, no free lunch.
     
  13. The Freeholder

    The Freeholder Member

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    Tell me you're giving a 3% discount for cash and I can live with that. Where I work I'm involved in credit card processing, and I know what accepting them costs.

    Give me a price, then tell me that it will cost 3% more when I pull out the plastic and not only will you lose the sale, but expect me to rat you out to Visa and/or Mastercard just as soon as I get home.
     
  14. Henry Bowman

    Henry Bowman Senior Member

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    Most of my gun-related purchases are done "off budget." That means that I save some cash here or there to pay for stuff without it showing up on the credit card bill. :evil: As a result, I don't get the FF miles or fraud protection that AmEx provides me for their fee. But I have never been burned by sending a USPS money order, sight unseen, to a member of our "gun culture.":cool:
     
  15. MechAg94

    MechAg94 Member

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    Having a cash price is not necessarily the same thing as charging a "fee" to to pay with a credit card, IMHO. The signs I see at gun shows say that all prices are cash prices with discount included or something like that.

    If there is a restriction on ID's, there are some very big chain stores that do this all the time. I am sure if the CCC cared to enforce it, they would have already.

    Given that many shops operate on very low margins to begin with, I don't mind. Most of the time, I only see that practice at gun shows.
     
  16. gonzo_beyondo

    gonzo_beyondo Member

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    Credit card processing is part of your costs for doing business.
    Visa/MC don't allow you to upcharge.
    Its against Paypal policy to ask for +3% upcharge also.

    Say you had to buy another computer, to do business, so now you have another expense at the end of the month... are you going to try and soak me for an extra 3% to cover that too? How about a new chair cushion, surely thats worth another .5%.

    I DO however, understand a seller takes a hit by allowing me to pay quickly, convieniently, or because I need to make 4-5 payments monthly to afford my purchase. Now 3% on a $20.00 sale is too damn petty, but if we're talking $1,800.00 then 3% is kinda considerable, isn't it?

    So... I try to avoid anybody who upcharges, or who gouges me on shipping... but when it comes down to it, if I really want the item, and it's worth the extra 3%, I'll suck it up. So I guess it's just another part of the dealing, negotiating price often includes taxes, fees, add-on accessories, etc...

    I've negotiated a few times to "split" the paypal fees. This seems reasonable to me, as neither of us should really be taking a hit, but we are, so to split the loss seems at least fair.

    When somebody wants full MSRP, plus 3% upcharge, plus 3x the normal shipping price... thats when I absolutely go elsewhere.


    BTW, Wal-mart does not upcharge 3% on a 10/22 or ammo and usually can't be beat pricewise. People sure do hate them though!
     
  17. Father Knows Best

    Father Knows Best Member

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    At the big local gun store here in Memphis, they pay your sales tax for you if you pay with cash. That's a savings of 9%. And "cash" includes debit cards (but not credit cards).
     
  18. dracphelan

    dracphelan Member

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    You do realize that you are paying an upcharge for using the credit card, they are just charging everybody for it. Rather than just those who pay by credit card.

    The reason the processing companies don't want businesses to do this is it discourages people using credit cards. It is the same as the hidden business taxes that consumers pay, but few of them realize it. I admire the businesses who give me the option of getting a cash discount (or don't upcharge me when I use cash). It is the reaon I have switched back to cash or using checks whenever possible. I want the prices I pay to stay where they are at or go lower. Few people realize how small the profit margin is for most businesses.
     
  19. bobaloo

    bobaloo Member

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    In my business, mail order, I post a price. If a customer wants to buy an expensive item, say $1000, I will offer them the option of a 3 percent discount if they want to send a check or money order instead of paying by credit card. It's a tradeoff of time versus convenience for the customer, but lots of folks like to pocket the difference, and the bottom line is the same to me. I don't make any more money by offering the discount for cash, it's all the same in the end to me, but it does save the customer money, that's the only reason I do it.

    I just sold an item on Ebay for $3800. That's a little over $100 to the credit card company, about $100 to Ebay, it will end up being close to $100 for shipping, amazing how many people are going to make money off that sale...
     
  20. poppy

    poppy Member

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    I think we as gun buyers should be willing to pay the extra 3% for using a credit card, why, because the average gun dealer around here at least has very low margins.

    I was shocked when a big grocery store chain moved into our area and accepted credit cards. I was also dismayed when a favorite local fast food restaurant chain began accepting credit cards. It means that they have to price higher to support the credit card buyers.

    I too don't appreciate the way some gun dealers (especially at gun shows) announce that there is an upcharge for using cards. That is the wrong way to do it. They are susposed to price for everybody and offer discounts for using cash. I have never seen a dealer list two prices, but it would make sense to me. poppy
     
  21. Gordon Fink

    Gordon Fink Member

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    Unfortunately, the firearms industry is stuck in A.D. 1968.

    ~G. Fink
     
  22. TarpleyG

    TarpleyG Member

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    Semantics...and a load of horsepuckey. How'd you all like it if the next time you went into Wal-Mart or to eat out at Chili's and they had a similar setup--pay cash, get it 3% cheaper? Bet we'd hear a lot of sqwaking then. Look, they can price it however they want and sugar coat it however they want but it's also my money and I'll just not give them the business.

    Greg
     
  23. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    I think you meant 1868.
     
  24. Waitone

    Waitone Member

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    Most people are unaware of the cost of using a credit card. The reason CC companies don't like two tier pricing is because sooner or later Joe and Martha figure out what that 3% amounts to over a year.
     
  25. jason10mm

    jason10mm Member

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    Does the 3% fee apply to DEBIT cards as well? I'd hate tothink that I'm hitting my favorite dealer with a 3% charge everytime he cuts me a deal on something, particularly if I could have brought cash just as easily.
     
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