Primers coming out while shooting

[Striker Fired]

I tried reloading for a Savage bolt action .243 this summer and the ONLY brass that I could get to fit in that chamber was new factory or brass that was fired only in that gun.I could not get the shoulder bumped back far enough on any brass that was fired in any other .243.It has either under spec headspace or at the very min.I had shims under the brass in the shellholder,the sizer die was hitting the shellholder at the top of stroke and that still wasn't far enough.I've loaded probably 4000 .243rounds and never had this problem before.The OP said his has a tight chamber also(the gun I was loading for was new also),so what is Savage doing?

 

[chris93555]

After starting this post and everything I have done, I believe my problem is over pressure still, not light loads or fouling, but thanks for the advise. My gun is not that old (4 months) and it was completely cleaned when I starting have this problem, I didn't have this problem with lighter loads. I started from the beginning even re cleaned the brass, I trimmed all of them with Lee's case trimmer. I'm starting at 36gr, with varget and Tulammo primer with the same bullets (speer hot-cor 80g.). I will re-post once I try these.

 

[chris93555]

I tried reloading for a Savage bolt action .243 this summer and the ONLY brass that I could get to fit in that chamber was new factory or brass that was fired only in that gun

I had this same problem before, only half of the loads would fit, but after I started using Lee's full length sizer, I stopped having this problem.

 

[Trent]

Be sure to get your rifle checked out. If your rounds were as hot as it sounds like they were, you may have stressed your locking lugs. Typically (not always) they will bend bend before shearing. (Had an old Egyption Maadi AK-47 which was incorrectly built, that self-destructed after 15 rounds. Locking lugs stretched until a case ruptured - gun shop replaced the rifle for free, which I promptly sold to buy a MAK-90.).

But that's neither here nor there.

Easiest way to tell would be to headspace it and see if the bolt is locking up where it should be. If you've "grown" headspace, it's a good indication the locking lugs started moving. That turns in to a factory repair (new receiver).

Anyway, any competent gunsmith or the factory itself would be able to check it out and say if it's ok or not to shoot.

Glad you weren't hurt.

FYI, a local old guy once was reloading hotter-than-hell ammo, because it made the rocks he shot "blow up better". He ignored repeated warnings, despite stuck cases, blown out primers, cratered primers, etc.

They found him one night unconscious at the range. His locking lugs sheared off on his 8mm Mauser (no small feat, that one). The bolt shot back in to the guy's forehead. Knocked him clean the hell out and he lost a pile of blood before someone noticed him, but he survived ... he learned a painful lesson we can all hand down now.

Oh, some day when I've got time I'll recall the Carbon 15 wall ornament I have now. Certain powders do not work well in pistol AR15's.

Anyway it can happen to the best of us man. Chin up learn from it and all will be good.

 

[chris93555]

After further inspecting my bolt, it appears the the lugs are fine, but the bolt head has side to side movement, about .05 of an inch, is this normal? I know I need to get the gun checked, but should I just replace the bolt before I take it to a gunsmith or turn it into savage?

 

[ROGER4314]

I don't understand from your description what the primers are actually doing so I'll just shoot in the dark.

If the primer pockets are oversize after firing, the guys are right. That is an extreme pressure sign. Don't do that again and disassemble any existing rounds.

If the primers are simply set back, in a pistol, that is a low pressure sign. That should not happen in your bolt action rifle. If that continues, have the head space checked on the rifle.

If the loads are VERY light, the powder will explode instead of burning progressively and those very light charges can exhibit high pressure signs.

If your cases are over length, jamming them in the rifle throat can also produce high pressure signs. Is the bolt easy to close on the loaded round? If not....stop! Don't shoot any more of the durned things! Trimming that brass will restore it to proper length.

Hope that helps!

Flash

 

[chris93555]

I don't understand from your description what the primers are actually doing so I'll just shoot in the dark.

Roger4314, everything was already figured out, if you start from the beginning of the post, page 1, you will see what was the problem, thanks for your input

 

[Trent]

Replacing a bolt also requires a headspace check; I wouldn't just buy one and drop it in, for sure. If it's moving that much, ship it back to the factory to have them check it out. A locked in bolt shouldn't move, something isn't right there.

 

[Trent]

As a follow up I was curious and checked my Savage 112, which has been battered by >1700 rounds of 300 win mag.

Using a depth micrometer to measure movement at the front of the bolt, in the closed position, it wiggles less than .001". With an empty casing it wiggles zero.

(Assuming you have a savage action since you mentioned Savage above).

 

[Trent]

But, it probably wouldn't hurt to call them and talk to them about it. THEY will know better than the Interwebs what their actions should have, tolerance wide.

Just occurred to me, my rifle is 14 years old and their manufacturing processes / tolerances may have changed a smidge since then. )

 

[Striker Fired]

I checked today and that Savage I was having issues with was also a AXIS model.They must have chambers that are short headspaced. Another guy at work has one also that he bought this summer,I'm giving him a dummy round sized to min spec to see if his chamber is short also.

 

[dagger dog]

It may be the case mouth is being jammed into the bullet and not letting the case neck expand enough to let the bullet start it's trip down the barrel, very tight chambers require that you turn the case necks.

You said it doesn't happen with new factory ammo, your max loads may have caused the brass to flow toward the neck and is now thicker in that area and jamming the case into the tapered portion of the leade causing the over pressure .

Measure the case neck thickness on the brass you have shot, pull down a factory round and do the same, see if there is a difference.

 

[rcmodel]

Or do as I suggested in post #41 and see if a bullet will slip fit in an unsized fired case.

If it will, neck thickness is fine.

rc

 

[idcurrie]

Sir,

You've probably noticed that peoples' reloading manuals are giving various maximum loads with some of them showing your load as 2gr over.

This is because component choice matters. Primer and brass can both affect the ammount of pressure believe it or not.

Further, the bullet plays a huge role. A bullet with rings will generate less pressure because it has less bearing surface. Conversely, a bullet which is NOT boattail or seated too deeply or simply have a very straight shank will generate MORE pressure.

Even temperature can play a huge role. Most powders will achieve higher velocity (and pressure) when it's warmer out.

Ideally, you want to find load data for the same primer, brass, and bullet you're loading and pay attention to the length used in the tested load.

If you can't find specific load data for you, look at a few different sources, and begin with one of the lowest loads, working your way up from there.

Also, in the future, if you see anything like this happen again, stop after the first round!



Be aware that if you have the bolt face lapped down, you will likely have a head spacing issue so the barrel nut will have to be adjusted.

Personally, I would just send to savage with a cheque for repairs and instruct them to take care of all that.

Regards,
IDCurrie