Principal Does Not Like My Desktop Wallpaper

[TimboKhan]

I agree, but I think there's a strong case that it's a violation of First Amendment rights.

As I said before, within the context of a school, many constitutional rights are suspended. A perfect example is that most school papers are not given free reign in the "freedom of press" department. Trust me, in this instance, there is no strong case. There is no case, period. Perhaps if the mighty ACLU got involved they could make a case out of it, but thats about as likely as Somalia developing into a first world nation.

The issue of whether or not your school would allow it is irrelevant to the discussion of whether or not any school should allow it.

I disagree. My guess would be that there is not a principal in this country that would allow that picture. Of those that would, the number would be so small as to be statistically irrelevant. In essence, I firmly believe that this discussion is academic, and as such what the school would allow is directly proportional to what they should allow.

On a personal note Doc, I appreciate that your arguing this point rationally with me. Although we disagree, I find myself very interested in your point of view. Plus, your a lot more concise than I am! Anyway, you exemplify the concept of "Civil Discourse". Thanks.

 

[Justin]

Moving to Legal and Political.

 

[vmfrantz]

If I were you I would leave it on and every day preach about the constitution and how important it is!!! Or put "Born to fight and trained to kill" as a screen saver.

 

[LoveMyCountry]

This is the back of my jacket. Would they ask me to turn it inside out?

LoveMyCountry

 

[Tusker10mm]

DESKTOP WALLPAPER

Well here is the one that comes on at work-- not many comments,but a couple-- my answer was a simple -- if it bothers you, don't look at it. No problems so far, the last four years.

 

[DRZinn]

Many issues involving freedom of expression are quite subjective. "I know pornography when I see it" type stuff. Still, the operative point here is this:

Pornography, or I suppose pictures of mutilated bodies, or whatever has traditionally been defined as ofensive and suppressed, cause harm merely by being seen.

Whatever the principal's or the school's position on guns, no-one can argue that a picture of them causes harm. At least, not rationally.

My guess would be that there is not a principal in this country that would allow that picture. Of those that would, the number would be so small as to be statistically irrelevant.

You could be right. But it still doesn't matter. The fact, for example, that there's hardly a North Korean diplomat who recognizes the right of the people to peaceably assemble has no bearing on whether or not the minister of the interior should recognize that right.

I appreciate that your arguing this point rationally with me. Although we disagree, I find myself very interested in your point of view. Plus, your a lot more concise than I am! Anyway, you exemplify the concept of "Civil Discourse". Thanks.

If you're not finding that that's the norm here on THR, then we gots problems. The main point of this forum is supposed to be that we keep it clean and debate politely, without the ad-hominems and such that infect other fora. But you're welcome.

 

[jnojr]

A couple of years ago, my boss asked me to take down my desktop image of my 1911 because it was "intimidating". I asked him just who was "intimidated" by a picture, and just how valuable such a person could possibly be as an employee? Of course, I took it down. I spent a couple of days searching the Internet for a poster or desktop showing a bunch of grazing sheep, but I couldn't find one.

 

[DRZinn]

 

[TimboKhan]

Pornography, or I suppose pictures of mutilated bodies, or whatever has traditionally been defined as ofensive and suppressed, cause harm merely by being seen.

Whatever the principal's or the school's position on guns, no-one can argue that a picture of them causes harm. At least, not rationally.

Well, no. I guess I never really addressed that very valid point. However, an Iron Maiden T-shirt also causes no harm, and they are not allowed at my school either. Sure, you can argue that Eddie, being a zombie and all, is offensive in that he is a zombie, but is he really causing harm? After all, he is a drawing of a zombie who apparently enjoys rocking. Still, your point is valid. I would submit that there are people who find pictures of guns offensive. Certainly, they won't cause harm, but if you were a kid whose BFF had recently killed him/herself with a gun, chances are that your going to be at least somewhat offput by seeing one. What if you were a Columbine kid who had looked down the barrel of a gun that day? Heck, think of how many vets you have ran into who have given up hunting and shooting after a tour of duty. Sure, there are those that don't, and even those that find further therapy in continuing hunting or shooting, but there are also a lot of vets that basically never wanted to pick up a gun again after they got discharged. Granted, they aren't in a school, and certainly it is their right not to own a gun, but my point is that there are some people who I think could legitimatly claim to be offended by a picture of a gun, if for no other reason than it drags up bad memories. Really, it doesn't have anything to do with the photo or what it can or can't do, so much as it is that they have developed bad mojo vis-a-vis guns. Doc, I think we would both agree that that is irrational, but thats how it is, for some.

This case reminds me somewhat of a recent case here in Colorado. A teacher here had flags from different countries hanging in his classroom (China and Mexico, as I recall) and was told to take them down. He made a stink about it and was immediatly put on suspension, pending a review. Evidently, there is a law here that states that no foreign flag may be flown in the classroom. This teachers perspective was that since he was a geography teacher, the flags served an educational purpose rather than some sort of misguided patriotic or anti-american purpose. Didn't matter. I am not sure where the case stands now, but last I heard, he was still on suspension. Sidenote: News interviews revealed this teacher to be a total tool.

By the way, I have had nothing but good expereinces here on THR, and have read opinions much more informed and well thought out than mine on several occasions! This just happens to be one of them, and I think it is important to convey appreciation of good discourse. I have actually been turning this thread over in my head for a few days now, and even if I don't disagree, I have found a perfectly valid counter to my own opinions, which is an excellent way to open up to new perspectives as opposed to shutting out that which I don't agree with.

 

[Mark Whiteman]

"...I spent a couple of days searching the Internet for a poster or desktop showing a bunch of grazing sheep, but I couldn't find one."


Anything depicting grass-eaters or koolaid drinkers would be equally appropo.

 

[DRZinn]

if you were a kid whose BFF had recently killed him/herself with a gun, chances are that your going to be at least somewhat offput by seeing one. What if you were a Columbine kid who had looked down the barrel of a gun that day?...here are some people who I think could legitimatly claim to be offended by a picture of a gun

By that reasoning, could I have them ban cars on the grounds that I was hit by one, and they make me nervous? Or pencils, because I was once stabbed by one? Or desks, because someone threw one at me? All pretty asinine proposals, and if someone tried I would hope they would be told to find some intestinal fortitude and just live with their nervousness, or see a shrink, because you can't just go around forcing everyone else to adapt to you. (Well, they can, but that doesn't make it right or any less ridiculous.)

Anything depicting grass-eaters or koolaid drinkers would be equally appropo.

Google is your friend:

 

[moewadle]

I am all for RKBA and freedom of speech but I am

tired of hearing guns compared to pencils, desks, cars, etc. There is a distinct difference. Please do not use that ridiculous argument on me because it won't work.

 

[DRZinn]

You're right,

Pencils, desks, and privately-owned cars haven't saved millions of lives.

 

[moewadle]

Yes, and they have killed many more lives than they have

saved most likely. When 9 million died in WW1 and about 20,000,000 died in WW2(most likely by firearms to a great extent in both wars) were lives being saved or taken by firearms? I do not buy that argument either, IMHO.

 

[TimboKhan]

because you can't just go around forcing everyone else to adapt to you. (Well, they can, but that doesn't make it right or any less ridiculous.)

In this, we are in complete and total agreement. As a matter of fact, I would go so far as to say that this is the crux of my argument. Overly sensitive people have made schools such politically correct institutions that I really believe that what they should do has been totally replaced by what they are willing do to placate whiners (and, to placate legitimate complaints), which is why I didn't think the "would" and "should" argument was irrelevant. Your right, it is ridiculous. Without delving into a whole new topic, I don't think it's liberal attitudes, pussified administrators or sensitive teacher/students/parents behind most of these actions. I can blame at least 90% of any schools issues in this country on three words: Fear of litigation. It would be naive to think that some school policy isn't guided by bleeding hearts who can't see the forest for the trees, but trust me when I say that litigation, or a fear thereof, drives about 90-95% of school policy. To your point about banning pictures of cars, pencils, etc... I am not sure that that wouldn't be the case. Now, most administrators, teachers and students wouldn't take offense to a car, obviously, but it truthfully does only take one to screw it up.

Believe it or not, when I was in school (86-90) we often brought our shotguns to the school during goose and duck season. I went to a small, rural school that was literally out in the middle of a cornfield, and the principal built a couple of blinds for us to use. Times have changed, and now the school has locks on the lockers, security guards and there are no blinds in the cornfield, but it was a nice place to go to school.

Also, you might be interested to know that I showed "Saving Private Ryan" a few weeks back as part of a unit on WWII. I personally feel that this is an excellent movie, and I am even ostentatious enough to call it as "important film". Because it is violent and there is some bad language, district policy requires that I send home parental approval slips, along with an alternative assignment if the parents do not authorize viewing. Of a class of 39 kids, 9 of them got alternative assignments. 5 because the parents didn't want the kids to see the violence, 2 because they never returned their approval slips, 1 because she was sick that day, and 1 because he was a "peace activist". Frustrating, to say the least. Interestingly, the kids think it is really cool that I was a Marine, and they are fascinated to the point of distraction that I was shot in Desert Storm. I have even received a couple of heartfelt "Thank you for your service" notes on days where that would be appropriate. I have also gotten a couple of random "Hey, Mr. M! GFY" notes, but thats a whole different subject.

Also, just to be argumentative, private cars have likely saved millions of lives by being used as conveyance to deliver doctors to hospitals. Usually, its really, really nice private cars that do that, but still....

 

[Joe Demko]

You can be as righteously indignant as you like, here among a group where many share your political beliefs. Back in the real world, meanwhile, the school still owns the computer. I think it is time for you to move on from this.

 

[moewadle]

I like what Timbokhan said

and, Thank you for serving in the armed forces of the USA. I am also a vet, 1960-67 US Navy, Gulf of Tonkin 1965.
For what it is worth I think enough said on this thread and I will make no more entries on it.