Pro Gun Resolution in Pike County, Illinois

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Anotherguy

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I just saw this on the Illinois State Rifle Association website.

www.ISRA.org

Pike County Board to consider resolution rejecting recognition of infringing legislation
Meeting tonight, 4/24/2007

PRO-GUN RESOLUTION

The County Board of Pike County, Illinois, has called a public meeting to consider a resolution which would state that the people of Pike County, Illinois, consider any legislation passed by the Illinois State Legislature that would infringe upon the Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms to be unconstitutional and beyond lawful Legislative Authority.

Such a resolution, if enacted by a County Government, would be unprecedented in the history of the United States.

The resolution has strong support among members of the Pike County Board. The resolution states that it is being enacted because, "The Pike County Board being elected by the People of Pike County is duly sworn by Oath of Office to uphold the United States Constitution and the Constitution of the State of Illinois." ...

We found this on AR15.com, go there and read the whole posting.
 
Does a "resolution" have the effect of law or is it just hot air?- In any effect, this turning things around in the Peoples Republic has zero chance of changing anything- You think Cesspoolagoland, Blogo, and Daley wouldn't crush this in a heartbeat?
 
It's hot air, but at least it's the right kind of hot air.

It's also technically wrong, at least about Illinois. It sucks, but the Illinois Constitution is a mess and it does say that the RKBA is "subject to the police power." Police power as used here means the power of the state to legislate and enforce its edicts--so the Constitution of Illinois actually grants the legislature the power to commit all kinds of indignities upon the RKBA.

It's disgusting, but there it is.
 
We really need to get the Illinois constitution amended. The police power line has got to be rewritten. Its disgusting that the state wrote it so that it could violate the Federal bill of rights. I wonder if they had good intent or bad intent when they wrote it? Meaning was it assumed that guns would jsut be a good part of the culture or did they intend for the state to have a monopoly on force?
 
That measure passed last night. This Sunday, in the first hour of my radio show, I'll have the three people responsible for this on. I'll be broadcasting from Pike County.
 
I've been dragging the web this morning to get results on this resolution...and early indicators are that it passed.

Armed and Safe

It is largely political sabre rattling...but I like the sentiment. After all...why Chicago set the political agenda for the entire state?
 
I'm all for states rights, but only if they do not abridge the U.S. Bill of Rights.

Way to go Pike County! Stick it to the man! ..er you know..the other man..

Way to go!
 
so the Constitution of Illinois actually grants the legislature the power to commit all kinds of indignities upon the RKBA.

Did Illinois agree to be bound by the US Constitution upon entry into the Union? If so, then via Art 6 para 2, their State Constitution cannot be rationally said to over-ride the Second Amendment in the BoR.

And yes, I'm aware of the idiotic legal arguments trying to turn this fact on its head. The Parker decision from the DC Courts pretty much shows why this "State law can ignore the Bill of RIghts" is WRONG.
 
"Police Power" also conflicts with Article 12 of that same Constitution.

Constitution of the State of Illinois
ARTICLE XII
MILITIA

SECTION 1. MEMBERSHIP
The State militia consists of all able-bodied persons
residing in the State except those exempted by law.

Adopted 1970, no "America the vast frontier" or "muskets only" crap. Notice the word "organized" is missing...

SECTION 2. SUBORDINATION OF MILITARY POWER
The military shall be in strict subordination to the
civil power.

SECTION 3. ORGANIZATION, EQUIPMENT AND DISCIPLINE
The General Assembly shall provide by law for the
organization, equipment and discipline of the militia in
conformity with the laws governing the armed forces of the
United States.

M-16/1911 when this became law. Sparta Shooting Complex only took 35 years to build so they're finally getting the idea :D

SECTION 4. COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF AND OFFICERS
(a) The Governor is commander-in-chief of the organized
militia
, except when they are in the service of the United
States. He may call them out to enforce the laws, suppress
insurrection or repel invasion.
(b) The Governor shall commission militia officers who
shall hold their commissions for such time as may be provided
by law.
Finally, "organized" makes an appearance - which only applies to members of IL Guard. Can't go from "unorganized" to "organized" to the sandbox without a draft...

SECTION 5. PRIVILEGE FROM ARREST
Except in cases of treason, felony or breach of peace,
persons going to, returning from or on militia duty are
privileged from arrest.
Select-fire EBRs, full-cap magazines and handguns in Chicago!

The FOID act also conflicts with the same Constitution...change it to "Militia ID card" and the problems disappear. Chicago could keep some of its registry to ensure that militia members DO have a handgun and a select-fire EBR and then send CAGE to households that don't comply - starting with the Lakefront Liberals, Aldermen, various county board members, Thom Mannard & ICAHV, etc.

I can dream, can't I?
 
Cellar Dweller...I like the argument you are piecing together as well. However, the Militia Clause was adopted with very little discussion or debate back in 1970. If you go through the committee notes from the Con Con you'll see the only real change was substituting the word "persons" for the old gender specific "males."

Trouble is, that without a real in depth discussion by the delegates...you are left with the plain language of the clause...and subsequent interpretations by the courts. It is hard to argue legislative intent where no intent can be found.

At the end of this...Pike County is really just presenting a formal expression of disagreement in advance of any additional gun control passed by the GA. But their resolution won't likely survive a court challenge.

The County is a subdivision of the State and is ultimately beholden to State sovereignty. The State Constitution includes "police power" control over the individual right to bear arms. The State's high courts have upheld reasonable regulations of individual firearms ownership. (Including support of Cook County's bans) Unlike Cook County, Pike County is not a home rule county. Ergo...no dice for Pike Cty.

The adoption of the Right to Bear Arms clause in the Illinois Constitution back in 1970 was a mess. It seems fairly clear to me (after reading the debates) that neither "side" really knew what they where going to get once the clause was adopted. Ultimately, though the individual right was affirmed by the wording...it was arguably an illusion...cause the individual right was left subject to the police power...which means it isn't a right at all, but rather the privilege that we enjoy in this state currently. :mad:
 
Just like the first congress passing the Militia Act of 1792, the Illinois General Assembly passed 20 ILCS 1805/ The Military Code of Illinois.

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilc...eqEnd=2500&ActName=Military+Code+of+Illinois.

[color=blue[b](20 ILCS 1805/Art. I heading)
ARTICLE I. STATE MILITIA IN GENERAL[/b]


(20 ILCS 1805/1) (from Ch. 129, par. 220.01)
Sec. 1. All able‑bodied citizens of this State and all other able‑bodied residents in this State who have declared their intention to become citizens of the United States, between the ages of 18 and 45, except such as are expressly exempted by the laws of the United States and the State of Illinois, shall be subject to military duty and designated as the Illinois State Militia.
(Source: Laws 1957, p. 2141.)


(20 ILCS 1805/1.01) (from Ch. 129, par. 220.001)
Sec. 1.01. This Act may be cited as the Military Code of Illinois.
(Source: P.A. 86‑1475.)


(20 ILCS 1805/2) (from Ch. 129, par. 220.02)
Sec. 2. The Illinois State Militia shall be divided into two classes: the Organized and the Unorganized Militia.
(Source: Laws 1957, p. 2141.)


(20 ILCS 1805/3) (from Ch. 129, par. 220.03)
Sec. 3. Whenever all or a portion of the Illinois National Guard is called or ordered into the active military service of the United States by the President of the United States or the Congress of the United States it shall be the duty of the Governor as Commander‑in‑Chief to furnish such troops, and the Governor as Commander‑in‑Chief may, by his proclamation, organize the Illinois State Guard under the provisions of the Illinois State Guard Law.
(Source: P.A. 85‑1241.)


(20 ILCS 1805/4) (from Ch. 129, par. 220.04)
Sec. 4. The intent of this Act and all Acts of the State of Illinois affecting the Illinois National Guard and Unorganized Militia is to conform to all Acts and regulations of the United States affecting the same subjects, and all Acts of the State of Illinois shall be construed to effect this purpose.
(Source: P.A. 85‑1241.) [/color]

So the Illinois Militia is divided into organized and unorganized militias. The entire act can be viewed here. The is nothing in it that requires the unorganized militia to possess arms and no one but the organized militia (National Guard) and recognized veterans groups to organize, parade or train with weapons:

(20 ILCS 1805/94) (from Ch. 129, par. 220.94)/b]
Sec. 94. It is unlawful for any body of men or women, other than the regularly organized militia of this State, troops of the United States, Grand Army posts, camps of the Sons of Veterans or organizations of veterans of the Spanish‑American War, Philippine Insurrection, World War I, World War II, or any future wars, dedicated to the welfare of the State and nation, to associate themselves together as a military company or organization, to drill or parade with arms in this State, except as hereinafter authorized; but, by and with the consent of the Governor, independent regiments, battalions or companies, organized for the purpose of recreation or to acquire military knowledge that may better enable them to serve the State in time of public peril, if such should arise, may associate themselves together as a military body or organization and may drill or parade with arms in public in this State, and students of educational institutions, where military drill is a part of the course of instructions, may, with the consent of the Governor, drill and parade with arms in public under command of their military instructors. Nothing herein contained shall be construed so as to prevent benevolent or social organizations from wearing swords. All military organizations in and by this Section permitted to drill and parade with arms, shall, on occasions of public parade, be required to carry the United States flag in addition to any private ensign which they may carry. The consent herein specified may be withdrawn at the pleasure of the Governor.
(Source: Laws 1957, p. 2141.)

20 ILCS 1805/94a) (from Ch. 129, par. 220.94a)
Sec. 94a. (a) As used in this Section, unless the context clearly requires otherwise:
(1) "Civil disorder" means any public disturbance
involving acts of violence by assemblages of 3 or more persons which causes an immediate danger of or results in damage or injury to any real or tangible property or person.

(2) "Firearm" means any weapon which is designed to
or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive; or the frame or receiver of any such weapon.

(3) "Explosive or incendiary device" means (A)
dynamite or any other form of high explosive, (B) any explosive bomb, grenade, missile or similar device, or (C) any incendiary bomb or grenade, fire bomb or similar device, including any device which (i) consists of or includes a breakable container including a flammable liquid or compound, and a wick composed of any material which, when ignited, is capable of igniting such flammable liquid or compound and (ii) can be carried or thrown by one individual acting alone.

(b) It is unlawful for any person to:
(1) Teach or demonstrate to any other person the
use, application, or making of any firearm, explosive, incendiary device or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know and intending that same will be unlawfully employed for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder; or

(2) Assemble with one or more persons for the
purpose of training with, practicing with, or being instructed in the use of any firearm, explosive, incendiary device or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, intending to employ unlawfully the same for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder.

(c) Violation of subsection (b) of this Section is a Class 4 felony.
(d) Nothing contained in this Section makes unlawful any activity of:
(1) law enforcement officials of this or any other
jurisdiction while engaged in the lawful performance of their official duties;

(2) federal officials required to carry firearms
while engaged in the lawful performance of their official duties;

(3) members of the Armed Forces of the United States
or the National Guard while engaged in the lawful performance of their official duties;

(4) any game commission, fish commission or law
enforcement agency (or any agency licensed to provide security services), or any hunting club, rifle club, rifle range, pistol range, shooting range or other organization or entity whose primary purpose is to teach the safe handling or use of firearms, archery equipment or other weapons or techniques employed in connection with lawful sporting or other lawful activity;

(5) any assembly for public historical re‑enactment
purposes by a historic military re‑enactment group portraying events in military history presented for the purposes of public education and entertainment; provided that any participants utilize historically appropriate uniforms, weapons and accoutrements.

(Source: P.A. 86‑1370.)


(20 ILCS 1805/95) (from Ch. 129, par. 220.95)
Sec. 95.
Whoever offends against the provisions of the preceding Section or belongs to, or parades with, any such unauthorized body of men or women with arms shall be guilty of a Class B misdemeanor.
(Source: P. A. 77‑2609.)


I don't see anything in the Public Act that would prohibit the passage of any of the gun laws because of the subject to the police power line in the constitution. Wish it wasn't so.

Jeff
 
At the end of this...Pike County is really just presenting a formal expression of disagreement in advance of any additional gun control passed by the GA. But their resolution won't likely survive a court challenge.

Unless, of course, the county decides to use force.
 
I knew there would be a catch, of course,

but upon turning age 46, according to the Code one could observe a foreign nation invading Illinois and tell Da Mayor to pound sand because, as a member of the unorganized militia at best and a non-militia member at worst, I am not allowed to do anything other than call 911 and hope that the invaders are female and were bartenders prior to being drafted so that CPD stands a chance. :D This assumes that I would be averse to someone invading Chicago, and that someone else would actually covet it. :evil:

OK then, what about "the police power?" Nobody seems to know what the heck it means. It does NOT say "subject to the General Assembly" or "subject to home-rule counties" or "subject to any legislative branch within the state." 37 years of go-along, get-along and no judge has thrown it out as too darn vague?

Some ICAHV flack: ban ban ban GUNS BAD ban
Resurrected Judge Wapner: IL Con, individual RKBA, police power. :confused:
Some Madigan: it means what it means
RJW: what? :scrutiny:
SM: exactly
Father Michael: I will happily accept all turn-ins at my church even though I don't have a FOID or FFL...
Some Daley flack: we win! The Man will be so happy! He will melt guns into more wrought-iron fences!
RJW: no, article is meaningless and therefore unconstitutional. Therefore, RKBA isn't subject to regulation so ALL YOUR GUN LAWS ARE BELONG TO US. Don't like it, call a Con Con and fix it, I want a Chicago Public High School student to be able to interpret this or it will STAY unconstitutional. Until then, have a nice day. I'm off to buy a silenced MP5/10, a hi-cap 9mm and a CCW rig...
 
OK then, what about "the police power?" Nobody seems to know what the heck it means.

Not to be trite...but "police power" ultimately boils down to whatever can be justified by the government. It means that RKBA is subject to regulation, provided the regulation is intended to protect the "health, safety and welfare and morals" of the people. The term is drawn from the 10th Amendment of the Federal Constitution...and it is pretty broad.

...as are most legal tests that enforce/challenge "police power" of the state.
 
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