probability of a federal CCW?

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Setting a precedence and establishing yet another part of our lives where the federal legislature makes the calls gives them more power. Please don't tell me you cannot understand this.

They do not have the authority. They should not be doing it. Send the message, do not support it simply because you like what it says. Oppose it because it should not be.
 
Warp said:
Setting a precedence and establishing yet another part of our lives where the federal legislature makes the calls gives them more power. Please don't tell me you cannot understand this.

They do not have the authority. They should not be doing it. Send the message, do not support it simply because you like what it says. Oppose it because it should not be.
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So we should sit back and do nothing, because its moral. while the antis ride the interstate-commerce train all the way to bans-ville?

No thank you.
 
I have seen this for who knows how many years. My take is that it has always been mostly raw meat for the faithful and never intended to actually pass. The cynic in me says the same thing will happen this year that always happened before - its a big deal and might pass and then just quietly goes away.
 
Using 'full faith and credit' to enact national CCW wouldn't easily allow for a restriction like that. It pretty much means that each state must recognize the licenses issued by other states, like they do now with drivers licenses.
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Except, in places like NYC - the driving age there is 17 while the rest of the state is 16. 16 year olds can NOT drive in NYC. A national CCW would be a bad idea because many places that are very liberal will want variances

The Feds have screwed the pooch on just about everything they get involved in - starting with Income taxes in 1913 and then Social Security back in the 30's - this would be handled just as poorly, yet with a LOT more cost and restrictions
 
So we should sit back and do nothing, because its moral.
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Whoever said we should do nothing, should be banned from this site. No. We should press each and every one of our states to adopt 'Constitutional Carry' like AZ, AK, VT, WY have. That list has double in length recently.

That would solve everything.
 
Nobody said we should sit back and do nothing. That poster was using a classic straw man
 
brickeyee said:
By agreement among themselves, not because of any federal law.

A CWP is NOT the same as a court order.
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That'll never happen. While the idea of a federal CCW, or Federally mandated requirements for CCW scares me, I believe it's the duty of the Federal government to enforce reciprocity between the states.

Everyone likes to base their points and counterpoints on driver licensing. The only problem with that is that (to my knowledge) no state has ever tried to refuse another state's driver's license.

If my 16 year old self had tried to drive in a state that didn't allow 16 year olds to drive unsupervised, I would be in violation of that law. In my state, a free turn is permitted on red if you are in the far right lane turning into the far right lane, or if you are in the far left lane turning into the far left lane (i.e. one-way street to another one-way street). If the free left on red was not lawful in Oregon (no idea if it is or not), and I tried to do that, the fact that it's legal in my home state of WA would have zero impact on it's legality in Oregon.

I believe that if Nevada suddenly stopped acknowledging California's driver licenses, California would have Nevada in Federal court in a week suing them under Article 4, Section 1.
 
There was a precedent, if one can call it that. It did not involve firearms, but it did involve a Federal Agency and States and licensed individuals. Before deleting this, please read on.

There are laws on the books in some states called 'scanner laws'. Licensed amateur Radio Operators whose mobile radios also received police radio transmissions would be at risk in getting their radios confiscated and fined and possibly face jail time if caught having any radio capable of receiving police radio transmissions.

A law was passed by the governing agency (The Federal Communications Commission) giving licensed amateur radio operators exemption from the law. PR Docket 91-36
http://qsl.net/w5htw/FCC_PAGE/fcc_page.html

This law did not give licensed amateurs the right to buy a scanner for their vehicles or to listen to police calls in states that prohibited it . But it did give them a legal right to have radios in their vehicles that were capable 'out of the box' of receiving police radio transmissions.

After the federal law was passed a number of states who had these 'scanner laws' on the books added the licensed amateur radio operator exemption to the scanner laws.

Even though radios and firearms are two very different subjects. There are similarities here.

Federal Government
Federal Agency
License Holders
Items affected by State Laws
Items that can be carried on a person or in a vehicle.
Exemption from State Law by the Federal Government

Comments?
 
The notion that you could take all 50 states and tomorrow without any federal screwing with allow carry permits to be valid in all 5o states is pure fantasy. The idea that NYS, Mass, Ill, Ca, would let knuckle draggers form Wy or Az walk their streets with guns under their shirts is a non starter without some heavy handed controls that would be set by those in DC who don't want them in their town. We might have a few months of euphoria but some incident would bring national attention and the cry for "something must be done" would go out and the long tentacles of the federal government would choke all the progress that individual states have made.
The second wave of right to carry is already gaining steam with Constitutional Carry passing in more states every year, only a hand full don't have shall issue laws and I think only one forbids it completely. I feel for those in restrictive states but it doesn't seem as though this law as written would give them any relief and with most states having reciprocity with 20 or more others and NR permits available that will cover more than 30 I can wait for the rest to come along on their own without the great fathers in DC doing their way.
 
X-Rap said:
The notion that you could take all 50 states and tomorrow without any federal screwing with allow carry permits to be valid in all 5o states is pure fantasy. The idea that NYS, Mass, Ill, Ca, would let knuckle draggers form Wy or Az walk their streets with guns under their shirts is a non starter without some heavy handed controls that would be set by those in DC who don't want them in their town. We might have a few months of euphoria but some incident would bring national attention and the cry for "something must be done" would go out and the long tentacles of the federal government would choke all the progress that individual states have made.
The second wave of right to carry is already gaining steam with Constitutional Carry passing in more states every year, only a hand full don't have shall issue laws and I think only one forbids it completely. I feel for those in restrictive states but it doesn't seem as though this law as written would give them any relief and with most states having reciprocity with 20 or more others and NR permits available that will cover more than 30 I can wait for the rest to come along on their own without the great fathers in DC doing their way.
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But that's the point... the knuckle draggers in WY, AZ, and WA should be setting the standard. By forcing the 'lowest common denominator states' set the standard might lead to some more logical regulation by these oppressive regimes like California and New York.

There will be no increase in crime because of this, if it gets passed. We know that... what will happen is the same thing that happens when 'shall issue' laws pass. The entire political and punditry machine will explode about 'blood in the streets' and then absolutely nothing will happen. It will be a non-event, and everyone will be bored with it in no time.

Everyone I know that doesn't have a CPL is amazed when I tell them that I can't use it to carry in any state. The automatic response by people who don't own guns or carry and aren't familiar with the issue is 'but it's like a driver's license, right?'. Then when I explain the reciprocity and recognition process, and that some states don't recognize anyone's permits, they think about it for a minute, and then say 'that's dumb' or some variation of it.

Frankly, most people who are not gun people think that there should be forced recognition to make things easier.
 
But that's the point... the knuckle draggers in WY, AZ, and WA should be setting the standard. By forcing the 'lowest common denominator states' set the standard might lead to some more logical regulation by these oppressive regimes like California and New York.

There will be no increase in crime because of this, if it gets passed. We know that... what will happen is the same thing that happens when 'shall issue' laws pass. The entire political and punditry machine will explode about 'blood in the streets' and then absolutely nothing will happen. It will be a non-event, and everyone will be bored with it in no time.

Everyone I know that doesn't have a CPL is amazed when I tell them that I can't use it to carry in any state. The automatic response by people who don't own guns or carry and aren't familiar with the issue is 'but it's like a driver's license, right?'. Then when I explain the reciprocity and recognition process, and that some states don't recognize anyone's permits, they think about it for a minute, and then say 'that's dumb' or some variation of it.

Frankly, most people who are not gun people think that there should be forced recognition to make things easier.
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Yes, people are ignorant. So what?

If CA and NY are to have more 'logical' and less oppressive laws then the citizens of those states are going to have to vote for that when they elect their representatives. If not...
 
Warp said:
Yes, people are ignorant. So what?

If CA and NY are to have more 'logical' and less oppressive laws then the citizens of those states are going to have to vote for that when they elect their representatives. If not...
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My point is that there are two groups of people that don't think CCW licenses can and/or should be valid across state lines. Anti's and people that think that legislation like this is some kind of ploy to federalize permits. We are our own worse enemy when we argue against this kind of legislation.

This helps us people... {sigh}
 
My point is that there are two groups of people that don't think CCW licenses can and/or should be valid across state lines. Anti's and people that think that legislation like this is some kind of ploy to federalize permits.
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I believe your point to be incorrect.

The federal government has no right to force states to recognize licenses granted by other states.
 
Warp said:
I believe your point to be incorrect.

The federal government has no right to force states to recognize licenses granted by other states.
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Have you read the Constitution? Go read Article 4, section 1.

You're right, the Feds don't have a right to force states to honor permits issued by other states. They have an obligation.
 
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