Probably a stupid optics question!

[RainDodger]

Ok, I have to ask some questions of you "modern" guys, about some "modern" optics.

To assist, here's my background. I've been shooting for ~50+ years and I've been reloading on my own now, for ~40+ years. I have a safe full (well, sort of) of rifles and most of them have scopes on them. Almost all are Leupold scopes, with the occasional original Weaver 4X because it's period-correct for the rifle. When I look in an optical aiming device, I've always seen crosshairs of one design or another.

Now comes the obligatory AR-15. Mine is an old A2 and is in pristine condition with the original A2 iron sights. I can hit center mass no problem at 100 yards, even with my old eyeballs, but it's not real easy.

Last weekend I shot a buddy's AR that had some kind of optical device on it that presented what he said is a ONE MOA red dot. I don't get it. When I looked at a 100 yard target, that dot covered nearly the whole freakin' paper. I don't think he had any magnification installed yet, however. Are these sights made for simply human-sized targets at short range? What's the deal? I see tight groups out of ARs shot by guys with red-dot sights.

If I want this AR to be practical and able to hold a relatively tight group at 100-200 yards, what kind of modern, dot-type optics should be installed? I don't want to blot out an entire target with a bright dot. I want to be able to see what I'm aiming at.

Help me understand. I think I'm getting old. My AR just won't look right with a big Leupold scope on it with traditional crosshairs!

 

[taliv]

most red dots are actually 2-4MOA. There may be one that's 1MOA. in any event, when you turn the brightness up, they tend to bloom and look much larger than they actually are.

as you prob know from 50 yrs experience, the key to small groups is consistent sight picture, not necessarily small reticles. as long as you can put the dot in the same spot every time, doesn't really matter how big the dot is. (edit: for targets... obviously for hunting, etc, it may matter)

that said, lately, i'm fond of the low power variables. they're like a red dot on 1x, but more like an illuminated reticle at 4x or 6x

hitting human-sized targets at 200 yrds is not at all difficult with a red dot and A2 style AR15

the down side is, they're not easy to mount on an A2 in a way that is sturdy (won't lose zero when knocked about), and allows you to keep a cheek weld

 

[rcmodel]

Not stupid at all. I'm 66 and have the same vision problems.
I think most 1 MOA red-dots are much closer to 4, 5, 6, 7, or 8 MOA.

I have a EoTech on my AR, and at high brightness settings the center dot covers the whole target.
Turn down the gain however, until you can barely see it, and I really believe the dot is very close to 1 MOA.

On my EoTech, the dot is supposed to be 1MOA, and the outer circle is 65MOA.
That makes it usable as a range-finder, assuming 65MOA = 5' 5" tall at 100 yards.
Half that, between the dot and the ring are 32.5" or a little less then 1 yard at 100 yards, or 5'5" again at 200 yards, etc..

Regardless, it's hard to shoot tiny groups at 100 yards if you can't see the target without magnification.

There are several good low power variable scopes being made now that offer a wide field of few for close-in fast shooting like a red-dot, but zoom in to 3x or 4x for longer ranges.
You might look into that.
http://www.leupold.com/tactical/products/scopes/mark-AR-riflescopes/mark-ar-1-5-4x20mm/

rc

 

[RainDodger]

Thanks for the info, you guys. Thinking back on it, I would guess that my buddy had the brightness cranked up, as that red dot/circle were really bright and not very clear - fuzzy around edges. I'll take another look at it. I didn't play with it at all, and only took about 5 shots with it.

As for the A2 - yes, it would be difficult to mount optics on it very well compared to a flat-top. If I decide to do the optics thing (which I probably will, of course ), I'll end up getting a new upper at least.... or just a new rifle. Good excuse to do so I guess.

Roger
NRA Lifer

 

[Carne Frio]

There are mounts available that mount into the carry handle
and extend in front of the handle. That allows for a red dot
sight to be inline between the rear sight and the front sight.
ARMS makes one and so do others. Another option is a rail
hand guard.

 

[rcmodel]

Heres my old Colt SP-1 with A.R.M.S. #39A2 handle mount and an EoTech 511.



rc