Problem with my GP100

[Nate1778]

Ok here is my problem, been shooting reloads out of my 6" GP100, groupings have always been OK, nothing to wright home about. So I was out shooting with both my GP100 and my G19 yesterday. I can shoot a much tighter group with my G19 than I ever could with my GP100 (which to me is sad). So I thought maybe its my reloads. Set the gun on the bench and at about 10 yards could connect all 6 holes in about a 2" group. So the ammo is shooting strait and consistent. I can't figure out the difference between the Glock and the Ruger. Trigger pull feels nice on the Ruger but it is stock. Also the Ruger sights, for lack of a better word suck. Anybody else have any ideas on how to improve the performance of the Ruger. I know some would say practice, but literally this gun goes to the range more often than any due to the above reason and want to improve. I have about 3K rounds down range with it and the groups have not improved. Also to clarify all shots are taken in single action. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I love the gun, but it has to shoot better than this.

 

[sheepdog]

Before you spend money on a gunsmith to go over the gun and check all possible problems with the gun...I'd have someone with eagle eyes shoot it...it's possible that it's you, not the gun...some gunshops have charts up that are pie-shaped...each piece shows a shot pattern and problem...and the usual thing that the shooter should correct to correct that problem...I've never seen it in text or online...I'm not saying that Rugers are perfect...but it would surprise me if there was a problem with the gun...having shot revolvers for 45 years, it's more often been me having a bad day than the gun...and your GP100 is one of the best...don't get discouraged!!!

 

[nulfisin]

357s or 38s? It sometimes makes a difference. Also, just because your ammo works in one gun doesn't mean it will work in another. Try different loads or even some factory ammo.

My GP 100 is extremely accurate. You just need to figure what it likes.

 

[Nate1778]

.38s and like I said sitting on the bench it shoots perfect, so I agree its definitely between me and the gun. I am just trying to figure out what it is as my Glock shoots pretty good in my hands. The front site bothers me as it is dark and hard to see. Don't get me wrong I can see it but not like the 3 dot on the Glock. I am starting to wander if its the sites. But I can line it up on the bullseye and peg it, line it up again and bam next shot is 5" low. I don't notice any movement in the barrel in the firing but that led me to believe maybe it was a hard trigger.

further, if I put a blank piece of paper out there and put one hole in it, I can usually get a fairly acceptable tight group around it (with the remaining 5 shots) with maybe one or two strays.

 

[nulfisin]

Shooting a revolver can be harder than shooting a Glock. Get a good high grip. Stance in a "fighting position." Eye over the barrel. Basically, the fundamentals. If this doesn't work, take a lesson or have an experienced revolver shooter watch you shoot. You'd be surprised how quickly some problems that you can't diagnose yourself can be fixed by an observer.

 

[cz85cmbt]

If you are shooting single action you should probably be able to tell if it is you or your gun. One little trick to see what you're doing when the trigger is pulled is to put 4-5 rounds in the gun don't look at the cylinder as you close it. You'll be able to tell if you are flinching or anticipating when you hit that empty chamber. If you don't like the front sight it is easy to replace, ruger sights are pinned in.

 

[Confederate]

Yes, both guns are shot differently. The fleshy part of the index finger shoots the Glock while the joint is used shooting the Ruger (double action). Wadcutters and SWCs are most often shot in revolvers. You seem to be getting good groups at rest, so the gun and loads are good. The next step is to have an instructor watch your stance and balance. The Glock's front sight is easier to concentrate on, so that could be a factor.

Finally, the Ruger has a clutch, where the shooter must pause whilst shooting double action. This requires lots of dry firing practice while watching that front sight.

If shooting single-action, try grasping the gun higher in the hand, making sure not to choke up on it. Use the fleshy part of your finger to ease off the shots.

The actions on both jobs are complerely different. They recoil differently and use two very different types of ammo. You already know the problem isn't with the gun, nor the ammo. Your only other option is to find out what you're doing wrong and correct it. Make sure your ammo is punching good solid holes in the paper and attempt to call your shots as you make them by recalling where your front sight is at the time of the shot.

To access these things, we need to know the loads you're shooting and how you're shooting them.

 

[Nate1778]

Loads are Lee 125 gr RNF bullet cast 50/50 and pan lubed. Bullet is sized to .358. Wolf SPP behind 4.7gr HP38. Sweet little round, even though it smokes a bit.

I will have an instructor both shoot it and watch me shoot it next time out. I have already requested some fiber sights for Christmas as long range shooting is too tough with the sights I have on there now. I love the gun, just wish I could shoot it better.

 

[LEVRLOVR]

I would suggest running through a few different brands and weights of ammo first.

 

[goodtime]

I think cz85cmbt has a good idea; check for anticipatory flinching by using one or two empty chambers or spent shells when loading for target practice. The Glock 19 is has much less kick in your hand than a rigid revolver -- even with 38's, and a revolver can make even more experienced shooters jerk the gun in anticipation just as the trigger is pulled.

 

[Blue .45]

The front site bothers me as it is dark and hard to see. Don't get me wrong I can see it but not like the 3 dot on the Glock.

You can get different color front sights from Ruger. They are very easy to change. Of course, this is only only an option for the adjustable sight versions. I have a fixed sight GP100, which doesn't have interchangeable sights, but fortunately, I can see them pretty well.

http://shopruger.com/Sights/products/24/

 

[KJS]

I have a fixed sight GP100, which doesn't have interchangeable sights, but fortunately, I can see them pretty well.

I assume that means you have the 3" version, am I right? I'm guessing Ruger figured that 3" guns are likely for use in self defense where one is probably just pointing toward the bad guy, not having time to line up sights.

I have a GP100 6" as well and know the sights can be changed. I haven't done so, but I'm well aware of how their black blade front sight shows up best if your target is a light color, like bright yellow. Not so easy finding a black blade against a dark target.

 

[Blue .45]

Actually, mine is a 4" stainless, with the full under lug. I think they discontinued this version some time ago, I bought mine used at good price. The rear notch seems like it is cut deeper and wider than S&W fixed rear sights, so I have an easier time seeing them.

I'm not sure if Ruger sighted these guns for 158gr. .357, but mine is most accurate with this loading.

 

[Confederate]

Yes, Rugers are optimized for heavier bullet weights, and for a reason. Heavier weights are more apt to be used for hunting, and lighter bullets for close-in defense shooting. S&W seems to do better with lighter bullet weights, which is why the 686 is on a direct par, accuracy-wise, with the Colt Python (at least the first generation or two).

Round-nose configurations also are just horrible from an accuracy standpoint. You should check your gun with good wadcutter or factory defense ammo.

 

[savit260]

Find someone at your range that's a very good shot with a double action revolver, and see what kind of groups he or she gets with it.

This is the first step I would take in sorting it out.


I've seen many people at the local range saying how poor the accuracy was of there gun, only to have it "checked out" by one of the locals, who proceded to drill out the X ring with the "junk" gun.

This way you can eliminate on of the biggest variables.

 

[Gunner4h1r3]

I have a GP with a 6" half-lug barrel. I do agree finding that black front sight on a dark target sucks. Changed it out for a steel one with a red insert. Problem solved. Mine likes both .38's and .357's. My handload of 158 gr JRN with 9.9 grains of Blue Dot with Winchester SPM's is a pleasure to shoot, both in the areas of recoil, muzzle blast and accuracy. can usually keep all shots in the center ring shooting double action.

Like most have already stated try shooting a different type of cartridge and see where that goes. Also (like others have said) see if there is something you are doing to affect the shot (i.e. are you gripping the gun too low or pulling to the right a bit when you squeeze the trigger). Hope it works out for you...

 

[Nate1778]

I just can't see it being ammo. Like I said from the bench the thing shoots right on the mark.

Is there any other reason you guys are recommending different ammo that I am missing?

 

[JohnKSa]

If the gun shoots well from the bench then it's not the gun or the ammunition, it's something about the way you're operating the gun when you shoot it offhand.

It could be you're flinching or it could be that you're not paying proper attention/can't pay proper attention to getting a good sight picture. Or it could be that you are having problems with the trigger for some reason.

You should be seeing the front sight razor sharp with the rear sight reasonably clear (but a little fuzzy) and the target being pretty fuzzy. If you can't see the front sight sharply then vision correction (or more visible sights) are in order.

To cure flinching or issues with the trigger do a lot of dryfire practice.

 

[Jeffm223]

Try the bump drill:

http://www.downrange.tv/videos/bruce-gray.htm

and the wall drill:

http://www.downrange.tv/videos/walldrill.htm

These, along with the previous advice to leave a random empty cylinder, should get you on the right path.

 

[Sunray]

"...how to improve the performance of the Ruger..." Had a trigger job done? GP's and all new firearms require one due to frivolous law suits. Doing one on a GP isn't hard, but just changing the springs will make a difference. If you do change the springs, polish all the internal parts(they're SS) at the same time. Operative word is 'polish'. No metal removal. Emery cloth works well. However, if you're in the least bit concerned about doing it yourself, take it to a smithy.
"...can shoot a much tighter group with my G19 than I ever could with my GP100..." That's not unusual. Has to do with how pistols and revolvers fit the hand and work. There's no moving your shooting hand with a pistol. Mind you, if you're shooting the GP as a single action and using your shooing hand thumb to cock it, quit doing that and cock it with your other hand. Makes the grip change go away.
How easily can you reach the trigger on the GP?
"...Rugers are optimized for heavier bullet weights..." Rubbish. Shot mine for years in BE competition using .357 brass loaded with 2.7 grains of Bullseye and 148 grain WC's.

 

[wow6599]

Ruger sights in the GP100 using 110 gr Winchester JHP. Trust me on this, I have the fired brass that came with the gun and when I called Ruger to complain about the gun's accuracy I was told to get some 110 gr like they use and see if it improves. I have posted this before, but here goes again -
I bought a NIB GP100 4" in SS last year. The first range trip left me with a nice spray of lead on my face. Long story short, Ruger replaced damn near everything in the gun.........and sent it back to me with a canted barrel:banghead:
They told me they would not have done this (sent it back canted) and I can either test accuracy with 110 gr stuff (I went off on the rep about that) or I could pay to send it back. Let's just say it doesn't leave the safe very often.

 

[GRIZ22]

Set the gun on the bench and at about 10 yards could connect all 6 holes in about a 2" group.

How well do you do this with your G19? If you are new to DA revolvers the trigger pull is much different and heavier than your Glock. 6 rounds should be touching one another at 10 yds with either gun. I've never had an issue with Ruger sights. I've also never had an action job done on a gun used for SD. Never saw any need to. If you're not a good shooter an action job alone isn't going to make you a better shooter.

 

[Bula]

Check the size of each chamber throat, you may find they are undersized. If so, go to cylindersmith.com. Best $40 I spent to help a brand new Blackhawk in 45 colt. That one shot ok, but when compared to my .44 mag super blackhawk, no comparison. Just a thought. Also, try different loads, the lee 158 rnfp works great for .38 loads.

 

[NMGonzo]

Pics of the groups would help

 

[nulfisin]

All the advice you are getting here is good, but there's quite a bit of it. If you can shoot a Glock, you can shoot a GP 100. You just haven't gotten the hang of it. Let an experienced shooter help you out. You may be amazed at how quickly you get better. Then practice. Right now, unfortunately, the only thing you are drilling into your brain is a flinch. A little bit of guidance and PRODUCTIVE practice will go a long way.

I speak from experience here. For the first hundred or so rounds, I couldn't make my Ruger Blackhawk hit the side of a barn. I actually didn't have a flinch. Turns out, I didn't know what to look for in the sight picture -- despite years of archery and rifle practice. A friend asked me if I knew what I was "aiming" at and it turned out I didn't. Sometimes, it's that easy.