Problem with scope movement

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Mr. Farknocker

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I bought a Tikka T3 Lite .270 caliber months ago and mated it to a Nikon Prostaff 4-12X40 BDC scope using the stock rings that came with the rifle. I used locktite to set the screw so it wouldn't move. Unfortuntely, the rings didn't hold the scope and scope crept forward with each shot. I read a bunch of postings about how terrible the stock rings were so I bought Warne steel scope rings and remounted the scope using the Warne rings. I took it to the range this p.m. and experience the same problem with the scope creeping forward. I can there's scope creep because I can see the the markings left on the scope by the rings. Does anyone have advise on what I should do to stop the scope from sliding forward (or conversely, the rings from sliding back)? Perhaps I really do need to torque it to spec. to rule that issue out.
 
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The stock Tikka rings work if you replace all the fastenings with hardened steel screws. I believe they are 4mm and 5mm screws. There are grit tapes (sort of like two sided sand paper that you can insert into the rings that will grab the scope tube seriously hard. But they have other issues like reducing the effective ring diameter.
 
I edited this post as I re-read your scenario and realized I misunderstood your problem.

I thought you were having trouble with the rings sliding forward on the receiver, I see now that it's the scope sliding in the rings. Maybe I shouldn't browse posts while laying in bed half asleep. :)

Anyway, how did you tighten down the rings on the scope? Torquing to spec ought to fix this.
 
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I just looked up that particular scope.

Myself, I believe in paying for quality optics. When I say quality, I mean optics that are good from the beginning and have a Lifetime Warranty on the product for you and for any family to whom you pass the rifle down to.

I have learned the hard way over the course of over 35 years that anything less than $200 or so is not worth the aggravation putting on a high powered rifle.

This is just my opinion, based on frustration on a number of occasions when I used to buy inexpensive scopes then have all the hassles with "trying to make them work."

There should be no "work" involved, other than going to the range on a perfectly calm day and sighting in the rifle, in about ten rounds, or less. When someone has to shoot forty rounds or more to sight in their new scope, I just shake my head and walk away. It gets to the point of "can I EVEN TRUST this scope to stay on target after I leave the range?"

I'm sorry, I don't enjoy wondering if my accurate rifle is going to shoot what I am aiming at.
 
Friendly said:
I just looked up that particular scope.

Myself, I believe in paying for quality optics. When I say quality, I mean optics that are good from the beginning and have a Lifetime Warranty on the product for you and for any family to whom you pass the rifle down to.

I have learned the hard way over the course of over 35 years that anything less than $200 or so is not worth the aggravation putting on a high powered rifle.

This is just my opinion, based on frustration on a number of occasions when I used to buy inexpensive scopes then have all the hassles with "trying to make them work."

There should be no "work" involved, other than going to the range on a perfectly calm day and sighting in the rifle, in about ten rounds, or less. When someone has to shoot forty rounds or more to sight in their new scope, I just shake my head and walk away. It gets to the point of "can I EVEN TRUST this scope to stay on target after I leave the range?"

I'm sorry, I don't enjoy wondering if my accurate rifle is going to shoot what I am aiming at.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to figure out how this relates to the original post. There's nothing about the Nikon that is causing his problem.

Personally I think his rings aren't tight enough.

To the OP: did you clean the insde of the rings and outside of the scope before mounting? If there were oil in between the rings and scope this could happen, but I'd think that would be obvious.
 
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Is it possible that you have the wrong diameter rings on the scope. I recently mounted a Nikon Prostaff on my 300 Win and have had no issuesat all. If I remember correctly some guns came with 30mm rings and others came with 1'' rings.
Just a thought.
T
 
Is it possible that you have the wrong diameter rings on the scope.
Click to expand...

Good suggestion, but 30mm rings are to large in diameter to make contact on a 1" tube. As the others have suggested, clean the rings and scope, then tighten the rings.
 
I guess i should use a torque wrench (the kind that measures torque) to do it right. Does anyone know what the proper amount of torque to apply?
 
I don't want to pick on you but, the glue thing is a really bad idea. No one else relies on hardened glue to keep a scope from moving. We all start our education somewhere so please don't feel bad about asking questions like that. Aside from you being able to witness the scope move, movements you cannot readily see will cause all sorts or accuracy problems.

If you don't get the reticle completely level, you're likely to cant the rifle when shooting to compensate for a slightly crooked reticle. This will cause more accuracy problems.

I suggest you let a gunsmith mount the scope for you. It's not expensive. $25?
 
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That Nikon ProStaff is as good as any other scope in that price range ($200)....not the best, but for $200 its about as good as it gets.

The 270 doesn't even kick that hard, so its gotta be the tightness of the rings...torque them.
 
I just looked up that particular scope.

Myself, I believe in paying for quality optics. When I say quality, I mean optics that are good from the beginning and have a Lifetime Warranty on the product for you and for any family to whom you pass the rifle down to.

I have learned the hard way over the course of over 35 years that anything less than $200 or so is not worth the aggravation putting on a high powered rifle.

This is just my opinion, based on frustration on a number of occasions when I used to buy inexpensive scopes then have all the hassles with "trying to make them work."

There should be no "work" involved, other than going to the range on a perfectly calm day and sighting in the rifle, in about ten rounds, or less. When someone has to shoot forty rounds or more to sight in their new scope, I just shake my head and walk away. It gets to the point of "can I EVEN TRUST this scope to stay on target after I leave the range?"

I'm sorry, I don't enjoy wondering if my accurate rifle is going to shoot what I am aiming at.
Click to expand...

Nikon warranty- Lifetime
Nikon customer service- Excellent
Nikon glass quality- Excellent
Nikon comparison to many higher dollar scopes- Better than a lot of them
Nikon price comparison- Damn good quality for a reasonable price

I've never had a problem out of any Nikon scope on my handguns or my rifles or my shotguns or my muzzle loaders. And I own some hard kicking firearms.

I tend to laugh at the guys going and paying $1000 for a scope that will be used for no more than a couple hundred yards hunting. More bucks than brains in my opinion.

OP, more than likely you have not torqued your rings down properly. Now granted you don't have to put a hulk hogan monster torque on them but you do need to lash them pretty tight. 20 to 25 pounds should be plenty.
 
SOME of them are assembled in the Philippines and I am with Cal....your point being what? You favor Leupold because they are supposed to be American made? Well guess what, they are ASSEMBLED in USA but the glass was made either in Germany or Japan! Only 4 companies make high quality rifle scope glass and are based in those 2 countries. Nikon is one of them! Matter of fact, Nikon is one of the ONLY scope manufacturers that makes it's own glass.
 
I had to chuckle when I read ArtP's reply (i.e., Message #10). I thought to myself that my suggestion to use hot glue must have sounded like i was trying to glue the scope to the rings which was not what I was trying to suggest. The purpose of putting a bead of hot glue around the joint of the ring and the scope was not to "glue" the scope to the rings" but merely to create a barrier that would prevent the scope from slipping forward...sort of like artificially creating a swelling behind the front and rear rings. The glue would adhere to the scope tube on the backside of each ring and would prevent the scope from slipping forward further into the ring. Anyway, I thought it was worth a try since the glue can be easily removed without damaging the rings or the scope.

I ended up buying a Warne Torque Wrench today. It's pre-set to 25 in/lb of torque. I'll give it whirl tomorrow and will report back with the results in about a week.
 
Mr. Farknocker said:
I had to chuckle when I read your reply. I thought to myself that my suggestion to use hot glue must have sounded pretty bad or was worded poorly. The purpose of putting a bead of hot glue around the joint of the ring and the scope was not to "glue" the scope to the rings" but merely to create a barrier that would prevent the scope from slipping forward...sort of like artificially creating a swelling behind the front and rear rings.

I ended up buying a Warne Torque Wrench today. It's pre-set to 25 in/lb of torque. I'll give it whirl tomorrow and will report back with the results in about a week.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure who you're replying to, but I suspect me.

I never thought you were trying to glue the scope in place. In fact, I knew what you meant, that the hardened glue may act as a barrier to prevent the scope from moving.

In any case, please continue to ask questions if you're unsure.
 
Many of today's aluminium scope tubes are kind of weak and need to have something to increase friction between them and the rings. I'm an older gunsmithy-type and have long used powdered rosin inside scope rings. They won't slip when that's done. Just be careful to cover the action when applying it, so the rosin doesn't get into trigger parts, etc.

My powdered rosin was bought from Brownells, but can probably be bought locally at hardware or auto parts stores.
 
Yikes. I'd take a completely different tack. I'm a big believer in lapping rings, and I'd begin by miking up the scope to make sure that it is round, and measures 1.000 inches in diameter. Put the scope aside and measure the tightened rings for diameter and roundness as well. There's got to be at least a few thousanths "crush" for the rings to hold down the scope, and if there isn't, you may carefully hand-lap the caps with 360 Wet-or-Dry on a dead flat surface, using water and a drop of detergent as a surficant. The rings will now be theoretically oval.

Then I'd use you 2-piece alignment bar to align the rings perfectly, then a 1-piece lapping bar to lap the rings. I've even installed temporary paper spacers under the caps to maintain the "crush" gap. Clean everything up and you're good to go.

The scope will not move.

As an aside, the Dednutz one-piece mounts are terrific. Though it borders on heresy, I apply a very thin coat of epoxy when I mount these on the receiver.
 
I've also read in a detailed manual on sighting in a scope that film negative can be used to shim the scope.
 
You are getting some reasonable ideas. My question is can you push the scope for and aft when it's mounted?

Second, you say you tried the Tikka rings and then Warne rings and it did it with both? The odds of having two sets of oversized rings are mighty slim. I'm guessing the scope tube might be on the edge of the allowable undersized spec? Get a caliper and measure everything.

And if it's a marginal fit, I'd sure try the Rosin idea - that fix has been working for decades :)
 
I bit the bullet and purchased the Warne Torque Wrench this past weekend for $25. The wrench is preset for 25 in-lb of torque. Last night I decided to remove and remount the scope using the the Wrench. To find out how off i was by tightening the rings by hand, I decided to torque the screws using the Warne wrench before removing he scope and thought that with the locktite previously applied, chances are that even if I under-torqued the screws when I mounted the scope, the screws would probably come out close to or over the recommended 25 in-lb of torque for these rings. Turns out that all of the screws were under torqued by a significant margin. I then removed the screws, wire brushed them to remove the hardened locktite and remounted everything using the Warne wrench.

I won't be able to confirm that torque (or the lack thereof) was the problem until I get out to the range this weekend but am willing to bet that it is. Will report back later this week with my findings.
 
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