I am looking to get a progressive to start loading .223. My Lee turret isn't going to cut it with having to manually index the turret. I am looking online and have no idea where to start. I like the Hornady press and I am stuck between it and a Dillon. There is the option for a Lee Pro 1000 etc but I haven't heard much about them. So my question is what is a good press for loading about 5,000-7,000 rounds per year? I will load 45ACP and others as I get the brass etc.
Progressive press questions
- Thread starter joustin
- Start date
- Status
Circuit Rider
Member
Have had a Hdy LNL for a year, don't load as much as you, but am very satisfied with it. The shell plates and other accessories are usually considerably less expensive than Dillon. Had a used Square Deal for a short time, excellent! CR
45lcrevolver
Member
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2011
- Messages
- 11
I use lee pro 1000 for 45lc and 45acp. I have done very well with it and am satisfied. I can load about 200 rounds per hour at a normal pace. But you can bring those numbers closer to 300-400 if you try I would guess. Also I have never tried any other press. I'm sure if you have the funds a dillon would be a great choice.
I feel the Hornady L-N-L is a bit more flexible than the Dillon 650 but you cannot go wrong with either.
When i purchased a progressive press 2 years ago, I bought the Hornady over the Dillon 650 after lots of research. I have since added two Dillon SDBs but they are not suitable for 223 Remington.
From what i glean from posts on the Lee progressive presses, you need to enjoy tinkering to operate a Lee. But, i do have any first hand knowledge of operating a Lee progressive.
When i purchased a progressive press 2 years ago, I bought the Hornady over the Dillon 650 after lots of research. I have since added two Dillon SDBs but they are not suitable for 223 Remington.
From what i glean from posts on the Lee progressive presses, you need to enjoy tinkering to operate a Lee. But, i do have any first hand knowledge of operating a Lee progressive.
Lost Sheep
Member
My Pro-1000 presses
Ok, I admit I bought my Pro-1000 presses used. (Trade, actually) and they did not come with bullet collator or any accessories. I used them like this
Fill the case feeding tubes by hand. fill the primer tray.
Crank out rounds with a 3-die set. I estimate 100-150 rounds per hourm but never clocked myself.
I found that I was halting every stroke to ensure the primers fed and powder dropped. I placed the bullet on the case mouths by hand and was pretty slow because of all the checking to make sure each event in the loading process occurred.
I never clocked myself because I never settled down to a steady rhythm, because the primer feed and other hitches kept interrupting.
With my Lee Classic Turret, I am almost as fast as the Pro-1000 because I and concentrate on a logical flow of events much better and never had a bad primer feed.
My Classic Turret with auto-indexing is more than 100 rounds per hour including filling all powder and primer devices, easily. I did 100 rounds in 47 minutes the first time out with only a dozen rounds practice under my belt. I haven't clocked myself lately.
I recommend recommend the Hornady LnL, Lee4 Loadmaster or the Dillon anything if your Lee Turret doesn't meet your requriements over the the Pro-1000, based on my experience with the Pro-1000. Keep in mind that my units were used when acquired. But what I did not like most about them were
1) primer feeding was unreliable, especially the final few
2) primer detritus from spent primers wound up mixing with the new primers
3) spent primers fell (5%-10%) not where they were supposed to.
I have heard great things about the Dillon 550 and Square deal machines. I always admired the Dillon 650. But I am VERY happy with my Lee Classic Turret. I load a variety of calibers, and caliber changes are MUCH easier and cheaper than on any progressive. I am uncomfortable trying to watch 3, 4 or more events happening simultaneously, so any progressive is naturally uncomfortable.
But, if I needed more than 150 rounds per hour I would have to consider the Lee Loadmaster, Hornady LnL or anything in the Dillon lineup I could afford.
Good Luck,
Lost Sheep
Ok, I admit I bought my Pro-1000 presses used. (Trade, actually) and they did not come with bullet collator or any accessories. I used them like this
Fill the case feeding tubes by hand. fill the primer tray.
Crank out rounds with a 3-die set. I estimate 100-150 rounds per hourm but never clocked myself.
I found that I was halting every stroke to ensure the primers fed and powder dropped. I placed the bullet on the case mouths by hand and was pretty slow because of all the checking to make sure each event in the loading process occurred.
I never clocked myself because I never settled down to a steady rhythm, because the primer feed and other hitches kept interrupting.
With my Lee Classic Turret, I am almost as fast as the Pro-1000 because I and concentrate on a logical flow of events much better and never had a bad primer feed.
My Classic Turret with auto-indexing is more than 100 rounds per hour including filling all powder and primer devices, easily. I did 100 rounds in 47 minutes the first time out with only a dozen rounds practice under my belt. I haven't clocked myself lately.
I recommend recommend the Hornady LnL, Lee4 Loadmaster or the Dillon anything if your Lee Turret doesn't meet your requriements over the the Pro-1000, based on my experience with the Pro-1000. Keep in mind that my units were used when acquired. But what I did not like most about them were
1) primer feeding was unreliable, especially the final few
2) primer detritus from spent primers wound up mixing with the new primers
3) spent primers fell (5%-10%) not where they were supposed to.
I have heard great things about the Dillon 550 and Square deal machines. I always admired the Dillon 650. But I am VERY happy with my Lee Classic Turret. I load a variety of calibers, and caliber changes are MUCH easier and cheaper than on any progressive. I am uncomfortable trying to watch 3, 4 or more events happening simultaneously, so any progressive is naturally uncomfortable.
But, if I needed more than 150 rounds per hour I would have to consider the Lee Loadmaster, Hornady LnL or anything in the Dillon lineup I could afford.
Good Luck,
Lost Sheep
retDAC
Member
joustin,
You might also find this helpful:
http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf
You might also find this helpful:
http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf
progressive presses
First let me say I perfer a manual indexing machine over an auto indexing one, and the reason is when something goes wrong (and it will) it's easier to back things up with a manual.
For load development I use a single stage press.
I use a Dillon 550, after I've settled on a load. Once I'm set up and ready I can load 400-500 rounds an hour depending on the cartridge. larger rifle cartridges go slower than smaller rifle cartridges or pistol cartridges.
I've used it to load most anything from .32ACP to 375 H&H
I've used the following progressive presses since I started reloading:
Lee Pro 1000
RCBS 4x4 Piggy-back
RCBS 4x4
Hornady progressive (whatever the modle was befre the LNL)
Whatever press you choose I'm sure will work well for you as each has it's good and less desireable features.
First let me say I perfer a manual indexing machine over an auto indexing one, and the reason is when something goes wrong (and it will) it's easier to back things up with a manual.
For load development I use a single stage press.
I use a Dillon 550, after I've settled on a load. Once I'm set up and ready I can load 400-500 rounds an hour depending on the cartridge. larger rifle cartridges go slower than smaller rifle cartridges or pistol cartridges.
I've used it to load most anything from .32ACP to 375 H&H
I've used the following progressive presses since I started reloading:
Lee Pro 1000
RCBS 4x4 Piggy-back
RCBS 4x4
Hornady progressive (whatever the modle was befre the LNL)
Whatever press you choose I'm sure will work well for you as each has it's good and less desireable features.
loadedround
Member
I would strongly suggest a Dillon 550B (manual indexing) or a Dillon 650XL (auto indexing). You will pay a little more for the Dillon press but in the long run their excellent quality and customer service is number one in the industry. I speak from experience, not BS, since I've run two Dillon 550B's for over 20 years and have a new 650 in transit as I type this. If you go Dillon Blue, consider purchasing from Brian Enos. He is a Dillon dealer and will ship any order over 400.00 free of charge, a possible savings of 40.00+. Good luck in your search. 
ColtPythonElite
Member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2011
- Messages
- 10,473
I have a L-N-L and like it it. It works well. I've broken a few parts. Hornady had replacements to me in about 3 days free of charge.
Blue68f100
Member
I have had the LNL-AP for over 3 yrs now and have been very pleased. I added the brass feeder a couple of years ago, why I waited so long I don't know. I reload about 3-5k 9mm/yr and now 45acp which is about 1-2k/yr along with 357mag and a few other calibers. When you have a malfunction you need to unload the stations if it's not an easy fix. Once you have it corrected you can put the removed rounds back. Depending one what messed up I may dump the powder and set it aside till the end and step it back in. Advantages of Auto Indexing is it is very hard to double charge, but it can be done if you short stroke. Changing the press over to different calibers is less than 5min if you have to change primer size. The if your like me and have a different powder die you just switch the upper over and your off and running.
The 650 cost a little more on the conversion kits than the LNL-AP.
Either one will server your needs, with the LNL leaving a little more $$ in you pockets for reloading supplies. And Hornady still has the Free Bullet promotion going on to sweeten the deal.
The 650 cost a little more on the conversion kits than the LNL-AP.
Either one will server your needs, with the LNL leaving a little more $$ in you pockets for reloading supplies. And Hornady still has the Free Bullet promotion going on to sweeten the deal.
jimmertoons
Member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2007
- Messages
- 46
I have 2 Hornady progressives, 1 LNL, and an older Projector. I am in the process of converting the Projector priming system over to the newer LNL system. I chose to go with the Hornady because of the cost of conversions. About $30 for the Hornady vs. $45 or so for the Dillon. I also get a kick out of the voice message at Hornady.
dbarnhart
Member
I recently had exactly the same questions you do. I looked at several presses from various manufacturers and documented my results here:
http://www.shootandreload.com/category/choosing-a-progressive-press/
My opinion is that if you are loading a single caliber the Dillon 550B is your best bet.
If you are loading multiple calibers in runs of 1500 or more then the Dillon 65XL is your best bet.
If you are loading multiple calibers in runs of 500-1000 then the Hornady LnL-AP is your best choice.
Since you are loading multiple calibers, pay attention to the cost and time of caliber changes. Each manufacturer has chosen a different spot on the time-expese line regarding caliber changes. My personal opinion is that Hornady hit the sweet spot.
I ended up buying the Hornady LnL AP, and documented my experiences setting it up here:
http://www.shootandreload.com/category/hornady-lnl-ap-setup/
I also recommend you watch the videos at UltimateReloader:
http://www.UltimateReloader.com
http://www.shootandreload.com/category/choosing-a-progressive-press/
My opinion is that if you are loading a single caliber the Dillon 550B is your best bet.
If you are loading multiple calibers in runs of 1500 or more then the Dillon 65XL is your best bet.
If you are loading multiple calibers in runs of 500-1000 then the Hornady LnL-AP is your best choice.
Since you are loading multiple calibers, pay attention to the cost and time of caliber changes. Each manufacturer has chosen a different spot on the time-expese line regarding caliber changes. My personal opinion is that Hornady hit the sweet spot.
I ended up buying the Hornady LnL AP, and documented my experiences setting it up here:
http://www.shootandreload.com/category/hornady-lnl-ap-setup/
I also recommend you watch the videos at UltimateReloader:
http://www.UltimateReloader.com
ill throw my 2 cents in.... I own both dillon and hornady products...
I went with the LNL AP.... caliber changes are easier... warranty work that I needed on one det of dies was great!! No cost to me even tho I messed up... Love the way it indexes 1/2 step at a time.
I went with the Hornady in the beginning because its cheaper and people had lots of good reviews on it.
Either press will satisfy your needs... one basically costs more...
ur choice
I went with the LNL AP.... caliber changes are easier... warranty work that I needed on one det of dies was great!! No cost to me even tho I messed up... Love the way it indexes 1/2 step at a time.
I went with the Hornady in the beginning because its cheaper and people had lots of good reviews on it.
Either press will satisfy your needs... one basically costs more...
ur choice
Redneckly33
Member
I own a Dillon RL550B. Works really well. As some have said, the conversion Kits are a little expensive. I would give my right arm to try a Hornady progressive. I saw a comparrison that had been done on the Dillon and Hornady.
The guy gave the Hornady a slight edge. the Dillon has the No BS warranty, but I have also read where Hornady also has a good service department. I guess its what YOU really want.
The guy gave the Hornady a slight edge. the Dillon has the No BS warranty, but I have also read where Hornady also has a good service department. I guess its what YOU really want.
I've been using an RCBS progressive for many years but recently bought an L-N-L with case feeder. Like others, I did a lot of reading, watched videos on YouTube of the Dillon 550/650 and L-N-L, and even went to a friend's house to see his 650 with case and bullet feeders. In the end, the L-N-L was the best choice for me because I don't pump out 2,000 rounds of one cartridge in a single session. I typically load 300, 200, 100 or 50 round batches of two, three or four cartridges. Am I impressed with the L-N-L ... extremely!! The quality of construction is impressive and everything just works perfectly. There is a learning curve because the press feels different to my RCBS. The 1/10th turn indexing is odd to me coming from the RCBS. Also, now that I only have to place a bullet after tens of thousands, if not more than a hundred thousand rounds, of case/bullet/crank/case/bullet/crank I now have to get used to the timing of bullet/crank/bullet/crank. I will say that I'm sufficiently impressed with the L-N-L and what you get for $370 that I'm seriously considering buying another.
If I had bought a 650, I would have dumped the powder measure system and upgraded to a Redding powder measure with Hornady's case activated linkage. That's what I use on my RCBS and L-N-L and I don't think there's a better system out there. Everyone knows that Dillon presses are excellent and they have a great warranty, but they're not for everyone.
If I had bought a 650, I would have dumped the powder measure system and upgraded to a Redding powder measure with Hornady's case activated linkage. That's what I use on my RCBS and L-N-L and I don't think there's a better system out there. Everyone knows that Dillon presses are excellent and they have a great warranty, but they're not for everyone.
codefour
Member
Pro 2000 owner chimes in
Well, I too recently purchased a progressive press after a year of single stage life. I researched it and researched it again to death. I had used a 550B and a XL650 at a friends house. The caliber conversions are a real pain, especially the 650. The powder measures are the slide bar type which is not as accurate as the rotary drum like Hornady or RCBS. Dillon is made of aluminum. Dillons are good, but I thought there was something better out there.
The Hornady LNL was also a contender. I just read about too many complaints with the priming system. The O portion of the press did not look as strong as Dillon or RCBS. Hornady is also aluminum.
Then I looked into the RCBS Pro 2000. It is a steel constructed press that is the beefiest of all. The powder measure is awesome (Uniflow). The priming system may seem different using the strips at first, but once you learn them, you will wonder why you ever pecked at primer tubes before. I buy the strips preloaded. Caliber conversion are the easiest of all! Primer swap is thirty seconds max if you are not mechanically inclined. RCBS customer service has been exceptional. When I was first learning the press, I broke a few parts. I told RCBS it was my fault and I would pay for the replacements. They refused and just asked for a shipping address. The parts arrived at my door at no cost to me. I have the auto index, well worth it. Here is a link to a review written by Peter M. Eick:
http://handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=26
That is just my $0.02 worth.
Well, I too recently purchased a progressive press after a year of single stage life. I researched it and researched it again to death. I had used a 550B and a XL650 at a friends house. The caliber conversions are a real pain, especially the 650. The powder measures are the slide bar type which is not as accurate as the rotary drum like Hornady or RCBS. Dillon is made of aluminum. Dillons are good, but I thought there was something better out there.
The Hornady LNL was also a contender. I just read about too many complaints with the priming system. The O portion of the press did not look as strong as Dillon or RCBS. Hornady is also aluminum.
Then I looked into the RCBS Pro 2000. It is a steel constructed press that is the beefiest of all. The powder measure is awesome (Uniflow). The priming system may seem different using the strips at first, but once you learn them, you will wonder why you ever pecked at primer tubes before. I buy the strips preloaded. Caliber conversion are the easiest of all! Primer swap is thirty seconds max if you are not mechanically inclined. RCBS customer service has been exceptional. When I was first learning the press, I broke a few parts. I told RCBS it was my fault and I would pay for the replacements. They refused and just asked for a shipping address. The parts arrived at my door at no cost to me. I have the auto index, well worth it. Here is a link to a review written by Peter M. Eick:
http://handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=26
That is just my $0.02 worth.
Hondo 60
Member
I've had a Pro100 & LostSheep (post #5) has it right.
I just couldn't get into a rhythm, l because I had to keep stopping.
Some people really like'em because they enjoy tinkering.
That's just not me.
I bought a Dillon RL550B second-hand, but never used (by the original owner).
It's sure been used by me!
I enjoy the manual index because you can stop mid stroke to fix a case out of alignment, etc.
Of course you have to be EXTRA careful not to dbl charge.
Anyway, I love the Dillon because it's so much easier to get into a rhythm.
I like to reload a box or two at a sitting.
Lot's of times I'm done when I feel like I just got started, it goes that fast.
Just my 2¢
I just couldn't get into a rhythm, l because I had to keep stopping.
Some people really like'em because they enjoy tinkering.
That's just not me.
I bought a Dillon RL550B second-hand, but never used (by the original owner).
It's sure been used by me!
I enjoy the manual index because you can stop mid stroke to fix a case out of alignment, etc.
Of course you have to be EXTRA careful not to dbl charge.
Anyway, I love the Dillon because it's so much easier to get into a rhythm.
I like to reload a box or two at a sitting.
Lot's of times I'm done when I feel like I just got started, it goes that fast.
Just my 2¢
I run the Dillon 650 because I got it free. Right place at the right time. It was so free, I now have over $500 in extra powder measures, die sets, and primer feed. Not to mention the extra pistols, extra bullets, powder, primers and gun cleaning gear. Truly a pleasure to reload on. I will work up my loads on a single stage and then load the heck out of them on the Dillon. If I was offered a Hornady, I would probably be typing the same thing about them. Pick your favorite color, Blue or Red and go for it. I have a few Hornady reloaders for 28 gauge and 410. Once they are set they are good to go, and there Customer Service is great also.
I guess Dillon changed the SDB sometime in the last 10 years. No 223 Remington dies are listed for the SDB and since the press takes proprietary dies, it is not like one can run to Midway and buy a set.
I will have to start scouring the internet looking for a set of 223 Remington dies for the SDB press.
If price is the biggest consideration, then the Lee Turret is probably the place to be.
When you think about it though, the difference between $300 and $600 doesn't look like much when you amortize it over 50K rounds or more. So if you think about all that time spent with the press (don't tell the wife), the one that works best for you is worth whatever you paid for it.
I have a 550b and like the flexibility of it. I have it setup so I can look into each cartridge for a good powder drop before placing a bullet, so that's not much different than a single stage batch operation double checking for powder.
I don't see the link in this thread, but one of the guys here has videos of a number of different presses in operation. I think it would be best to pick the press best suited to the operator. The best thing any of us can do is provide honest feedback on what we like and don't like about the presses we've used.
BTW, the 550b has never failed to drop the expected amount of powder, and I haven't caught myself moving on without powder, but I like the extra quality assurance step. I would prefer to do that on any press, no matter the flavor.
When you think about it though, the difference between $300 and $600 doesn't look like much when you amortize it over 50K rounds or more. So if you think about all that time spent with the press (don't tell the wife), the one that works best for you is worth whatever you paid for it.
I have a 550b and like the flexibility of it. I have it setup so I can look into each cartridge for a good powder drop before placing a bullet, so that's not much different than a single stage batch operation double checking for powder.
I don't see the link in this thread, but one of the guys here has videos of a number of different presses in operation. I think it would be best to pick the press best suited to the operator. The best thing any of us can do is provide honest feedback on what we like and don't like about the presses we've used.
BTW, the 550b has never failed to drop the expected amount of powder, and I haven't caught myself moving on without powder, but I like the extra quality assurance step. I would prefer to do that on any press, no matter the flavor.
+1 on the rcbs pro 2000. I know dillon dominates the market, and that's great, but fondle an RCBS before you buy. The rcbs stuff is waaay overbuilt (cast steel), so it might not have every feature you like, but it'll last multiple lifetimes.
--edfardos
--edfardos
Chuck, I'm an idiot. For some reason I read that as 550.
No problem, I have selective sight on occasions myself.
While I am not new to reloading, I am new to Dillons so I could have been wrong about past configurations.
- Status
