progressive presses - opinions & advice

[bender]

I've searched on progressive press threads, and have already read through some of the existing threads.

I currenntly still use my old Lee Turret, that I've been using since the 1980s. its the 3-hole turret, and I have about 8 turrets with all my Lee dies already mounted in them.

I'm interested in a high-quality, minimum hassle progressive press. I plan to keep my Lee turret press, but move it to another side of my reloading table.

Based on reveiws by Midway customers, the Hornady LnL AP and the RCBS Pro 2000 are highly recommended. Didn't read the reviews on the lee Pro 1000. The reviews for the Lee Loadmaster were "mediocre" to be kind. People didn't like the Loadmaster: "difficult instructions, hard to set up, etc etc".

So I was wondering about comments on the Hornady LnL AP, and the RCBS Pro 2000. I will probably continue to use my Lee Turret Press for my calibers that I don't shoot much, such as 30-06 and 9mm.

Do the Hornady & RCBS progressive really work properly, how are they with changing calibers, will they work ok with my existing Lee dies, how do the priming systems compare?

Is there any videos of these presses in operation anywhere on the web?

 

[The Bushmaster]

Oooh...Look out...Here comes the Blue monster. Just kidding guys...

I can't help ya much, but the rest will give you a good run down. I believe there is a string devoted to this very subject. I just can't seem to find just yet. I still and at present, will continue to use my 3 hole Lee turret. I just don't have the demand to load high volume. I have done some research and I would pick the LNL due to convenience of calibre change.

 

[mc223]

I bought the Dillon RL550B 10 years ago and have never looked back. Simple and quick caliber change and covered by the No BS warranty. Load rate is as fast as I want to go and does produce excellent quality ammo.

I looked at the LNL and the Pro 2000. IMHO they both look like they are just a modified single stage with some stuff hanging off of it.

 

[spencerhut]

Video, not that I know of.
LNL and Pro2000 are both great presses. I got the Pro2000 because the APS primer system is the best on the market, in my opionion of course.
Your Lee dies will work just fine, most of my dies are Lee.

Let's see loading pistol (38 Super, 9mm, 40 & 45) on my RCBS Pro2000
Insert case in station 1
Push handle forward to seat primer in station 2
Visually check for powder in case at station 4
Insert bullet in mouth of case at station 4
Pull handle down = Decap & Size 1, expand 2, charge 3, seat 4, Crimp 5
Pull handle up
Rotate shell plate by hand to hear the wonderful sound of a finished round falling into the bin.

Every 25 rounds:
Add a new primer strip
Check charge in case at station 4
Check case OAL from round that dropped from station 5
Takes <60 seconds
Add bullets & brass to trays as needed
Total output 300 to 450 rounds per hour.

Changing calibers:
Pull (2) pins and slide out die plate. <5 seconds
Change shell plate (if needed) two allen wrenches and <45 seconds
Change primer from large to small (if needed) one 7/16" wrench and <30 seconds
If changing from short to long cases or vise versa you will need to pull or add a spacer to the powder drop. <5 minutes
You may also need to change the powder drop from the small screw to the large screw if the size of the powder charge is significantly different. You can swap the stock powder drop guts that comes with the Pro2000 to the quick change parts easily. I just did mine the other day. Then you can setup several different screws to your regular powder charges, if you feel like it.

Overall I'm very pleased with my Pro2000. It's built so tough it will be around long after I am gone.

The only real complaint I have is that the powder measure is not moveable to a different die station. Kind of limits flexibility at times, no big deal.

 

[spencerhut]

MC223 "I looked at the LNL and the Pro 2000. IMHO they both look like they are just a modified single stage with some stuff hanging off of it."

Wow! I never thought I'd hear a comment like that from the blue cool-aid crowd.

Bender, As you can see some people have blinders on around here. Do your research and get the one red, green or blue that suites you. I did.

Cost was not the deciding factor for me. My short list was:
Dillon 1050
Hornady LNL
RCBS Pro2000

If I shoot much more . . . I might get a 1050 setup for my match ammo. Not there yet. The Pro2000 is keeping me knee deep in ammo just fine.

 

[distra]

Drink the Blue Kool-aid, it's tasty. I recently got into reloading and 550B is working fine ~250 rds/hr and that's not even breaking a sweat. From all the input here, it seems that any of the progressives will do the job. It seems to be a matter of taste, either you like the Blue, Green or Red kool-aid. Of course the kool-aid metaphor should really be an M&M metaphor because they "taste" the same.

 

[bender]

ok, on the Dillons... they are very popular... but... I've read that setting them up for different calibers is kind of expensive.

on the RCBS Pro 2000... the comments by the Midway customers were very positive about the "priming strip" system... However, I'm not sure exactly that means... I buy primers in bricks of 1000, so how do they get in strips?

Like I said, I'll keep my Lee Turret press and use it for most of my calibers. I'm interested in a good progressive for my "most shot" calibers... which are .45acp for pistol, and .223 for rifle (after I get an AR).

 

[distra]

Dillon conversions run about $100 new, ~$40 for shell plate (if you need it) and ~$55 for 3 dies. You can use non-Dillon dies if you like. Dillon customer service is top notch, as are the others.

 

[kolob10]

Blue machines

I have a Dillon 550 & 650 currently and would have no other progressive unless I fall heir to a fortune & then I would go commercial or just buy my ammo. I've had Dillon's since they came out with the 350 (I think). They have a no BS warranty if anything goes wrong.

 

[bender]

so if I already own all the dies I need (Lee dies) then the Dillon caliber conversion would be cheaper for me...

How many $40 shell plates do you need?

how does the RCBS "APS" priming work? EDIT: ok, never mind about the APS. I browsed the RCBS Pro 2000 online owners manual and read all about it.

 

[spencerhut]

First of all I must say the APS priming system on the Pro2000 works better than anything else I have used. You can get away with never touching a primer. The primer strips are just a plastic strip holding 25 primers. They come in boxes of 1000 or a case is 5000, Midway sells them. Even if you don't buy the preloaded strips (sometimes I don't) you can load them into empty strips with the INCLUDED strips and strip loader. Peice of cake once you get the hang of it. I do it while watching TV, still never touch a primer.

 

[spencerhut]

The RCBS caliber change over is:
$14.49 Die plate Midway #636439
$7.89 Shell Plate Indexing Wheel Midway #103540
$25.99 Shell Plate - most work with multiple calibers
Plus the cost of dies, any brand should work.

 

[Kruzr]

How many $40 shell plates do you need?

For a Dillon, you need a conversion kit for each caliber. It includes the shell plate, the powder drop/expander funnel, and the locator buttons to keep the brass in place. Dillon's hold 100 primers at a pop. It takes about 2 minutes to load a primer pick-up tube and then you just empty it into the primer magazine.

 

[CMcDermott]

Another vote for the RCBS 2000. APS priming is the way to go, simply better than any other system. Easy to change between small and large priming systems, takes less than a minute. Easy to change from one caliber to another, cut down an allen wrench so that you can spin it freely without hitting the powder measure drop linkage and a caliber change can be done in about 1 minute. Much more of a complete kit comes in the box when buying this press, it comes with bins for finished ammo, empty cases and a bullet tray and also all of the allen wrenches needed to adjust the press. The powder measure is RCBS' Uniflow, mine came with the micrometer stem and both rifle and pistol measuring drums. Changing powders in the measure is still a pain, and by far takes more time than any other operation with this press; but this is true of all of the systems. Even if you have the money to buy a powder measure for each powder; you shouldn't leave the powder in the measure after you are done with your loading session.

 

[distra]

How many $40 shell plates do you need?

That depends on the calibers you are loading. Some shell plates can be used for other calibers, but us different brass indexing buttons. The powder funnel comes with the shell plate as well. Here is a link listing some of the cross caliber shell plates.http://www.brianenos.com/pages/dillon/cal.conv.chart.html

 

[1911user]

I'm interested in a high-quality, minimum hassle progressive press.

I think you should add the dillon 550 to your list. I used a 550 for several years and currently have the LNL-AP. The 550 was definitely less hassle to get setup and use in my experience. A tweaked and tuned LNL-AP can turn out good ammo quickly, but it takes more work to get and keep it tweaked in my experience. The real caliber conversion costs will be similar between the 550 and LNL-AP (and I suspect the rcbs one also); about $40 for a minimum set of parts not counting the dies. I don't like the APS primer strips in general and you'll pay $3 per 1000 extra for primers already in the strips. I see no advantage to the pro2000 compared to a 550b and they cost about the same.

 

[bender]

Since I'll keep my current Lee Turret press and all my Lee dies, I probably will only use a new progressive press for the few calibers that I shoot more than the others. So caliber conversion costs will probably only be for a few calibers.

How about 38sp & 357mag, does that require a caliber conversion or not? ditto for 44sp & 44mag...

 

[1911user]

How about 38sp & 357mag, does that require a caliber conversion or not? ditto for 44sp & 44mag...

Those are only die adjustments just like on a single stage press. No seperate conv. kit is needed going from 38-357 or 44sp-44mag.

 

[redneck2]

Maybe a little more detailed explaination would help make more sense.

The shell plate holds the cartridge head, so any case that has the same head dimension will pretty much take the same plate. If you look at a Dillon chart, you'll see that some shell plates can be used on quite a few calibers.

IIRC, my 45acp and 22-250 use the same plate. You can save some money by using the same plate for multiple calibers rather than buying duplicates of the same plate (assuming they are correct)

The powder funnels are the same thing. If you've got a .357 caliber pistol case, odds are it will work for another (.38 & .357). You just screw the housing up or down to get the correct flair.

IIRC, there are only 4 sizes of locator buttons, so 12 total should be enough.

Been a while since I've reloaded, but this gives you the general idea.

I can tell you that, if you change calibers very much, it's a good idea to get the total conversion kit. Moderately costly, but it saves a ton of time.

Even if you don't change often, IMO it's worth getting extra tool heads to hold the dies. That way, you can leave the dies in the head and not have to re-adjust them.

HTH

 

[benedict1]

Lee Load Master

I for one disagree with any notion that the Lee Load Master is hard to set up and use. I just bought one about 6 weeks ago; followed the video instructions on the Lee website and was operational, with case feeder, within 90 minutes of opening the box, loading 45 ACP. Since then I have converted to 9mm also and no problems have occurred.

The set up is simple; the priming system works like a charm; the Pro Auto Disk Powder Measure is completely consisitent. For less than $250, delivered, you can be loading one caliber. Just follow the video directions to get it going--nothing could be simpler.

I have no idea why people have had problems with this machine--I have now loaded over 2000 rounds of 9mm and 45 ACP with no problems. I have also just ordered dies and shellplate for 38 Special.

IMHO their is no better price/performance machine on the market.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

I have a Pro 2000 and I'm very happy with it. I looked at the L-n-L and Dillon Presses and the ease and cost of caliber conversion was about the same for the Pro 2000 and the L-n-L. At the time, to achieve the same level of ease with the Dillon, I determined I'd have to purchase a separate powder dispenser for each tool head. However there are products now on the market (see: http://www.mrdial.com and http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1231 ) that appear to make powder adjustments on Dillon presses a little easier.

As I already had RCBS dies, I bought the Pro-2000 kit and haven't had to purchase any other accessories. All i've needed are shell holders, tool heads and star wheels to convert calibers.

Good luck on your choice!

 

[bender]

I may have to hit some gun stores to see if anyone has a pro 2000 on display.

I'd hate to cough up $400 and then decide I didn't like it...

What about the Lee Pro 1000? does it work ok, or is it more trouble than its worth?

 

[TooTaxed]

After 50 years of reloading with single-stage presses, I finally decided to go progressive for my most-used cartridges. To help me make my choice, various friends let me use their Dillon, Lee Loadmaster, and Hornady L&L progressives.

The Dillon 550 and 650 machines have been at the top of the market for a good generation, and I initially thought that would be my choice...but after trying other progressives, I believe Dillon to be sadly in need of modernization. Their sliding powder measures are particularly of antique design...so complex to change settings that my buddy bought three powder measures set to different charges so he wouldn't have to mess with it...at over $60 each! The Dillons are VERY expensive to change to different calibers as compared to all other progressives, and the presses are the most expensive of all progressives by a considerable margin. It wasn't very easy to take an individual case out of the cycle if necessary. (If you are set on a Dillon, there are plenty of used setups available on the EBAY auctions, and they go for sizable discounts over new.)

The Lee Loadmaster has some innovative design features...including decapped primer collection inside the ram...but I didn't care for all the key nylon parts, including the station advance guide and the priming system, as they do take wear, especially the station advance guide. Relacement parts are very cheap...$3...and it is very inexpensive to change calibers. Very easy to remove individual cases from the cycle. And the machine is VERY reasonably priced! Their powder measure is also a slide system, though the adjustment knob makes it easy to change charges.

To make a long story short, the Hornady L&L was my clear choice. Massive construction, relatively inexpensive to change calibers (uses individual quick-installation sleves on each die...simply insert and turn a quarter turn to lock), a modern and easy-to-change drum powder measure, tube-to-wastebasket disposal of decapped primers, smooth operation and unusually clean to operate. Very easy to remove individual cases from the cycle. Available for under $300 from Midway and Graf, complete except for dies. (Haven't found any up for auction on EBAY...people seem to hold onto them.)

I'm quite happy with my choice!

 

[robctwo]

I went through the same search 2 1/2 years ago. Decided on the Hornady LnL. Just over 32,000 rounds through mine. Mostly pistol at first, but a lot of rifle in the past year. I have the bushings on all my dies, so changing calibers is a snap. I like the powder drop and the primer feed. Interesting new powder drop through the expander die for pistol, but I probably won't convert.

With the rifle reloads I've been running the cases through to size and prime, then dropping the powder by hand. Back in the press to seat the bullet. Not a lot faster than the turret, if any. then I put in the .45 ACP dies and there are a few hundred rounds in not much time at all.

My friend has the Loadmaster. I learned to reload on it. He has press envy whenever he runs mine. He makes good bullets, just a lot of tinkering.

I don't get too excited about the "my press is the best one made". I have no idea about the Dillon or RCBS. Get the one you like and learn how to run it.

 

[stellarpod]

How about 38sp & 357mag, does that require a caliber conversion or not? ditto for 44sp & 44mag...

I found out fairly quickly that I didn't want to have to reset dies to switch from 38 to 357. I therefore set up a duplicate set of dies in a toolhead for 357. The whole idea behind a modern progressive press is to allow mass production of ammo. The new presses minimize the hassle of switching calibers so, for me, it made since to set up a separate toolhead.

I load on a Dillon 650 and have been doing so for about 5 years. Prior to that I used a Lee 1000. The 650 is an incredible machine. But make no mistake about it; any progressive machine you buy will occassionally hiccup, disrupting your process in one way or another.

Switching calibers is more of a hassle than it should be IMHO - especially if you've got to switch small to large primers (or vice-versa). I've purchased a separate Large Primer System which allows me to switch out primer sizes fairly quickly.

But, it's not just a matter of switching out the hardware. Unless you've got a separate powder measure for each toolhead, you'll spend several minutes getting the charge set properly.

Also, if you've got the casefeeder (no 650 should be without one) you may have to change out the plate if your doing a caliber change.

As far as primers: The Dillon system works well. Like any other system if powder gets into things it can start to gum up a little. Do yourself a favor and purchase a Franklin Arsenal Vibra-Prime to fill the primer tubes. It will REALLY speed up the primer process.

Switching from small calibers to large, changing the primer system, changing the shellplate, changing the casefeeder plate and then working up the powder charge can take as much as 30-45 minutes in my experience - more if you run into any problems (which is rare).

I've got toolheads set up for 9mm, 38, 357, 40S&W, 45ACP, 45 Colt, 44 Mag Cowboy and 44 Mag Full Load. I usually won't hassle with changing calibers unless I've got at least 500 rounds to load and 1000 rounds is even better. I load all rifle calibers on my RCBS Rockchucker, although I've been considering trying to run 308 through the Dillon. Just don't want the hassle of case lube gumming up the case feeder. (I suppose I could load it without using the casefeeder though.)

BTW - Anyone have a set of Dillon 30 Carbine dies for sale?

stellarpod