Progressive Press?
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Smokey Joe
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Which progressive
1. Dillon, because everybody has one, and everybody will have an opinion about yours. The customer support is w/o peer.
2. Hornady, because they work better than Dillons, and have a more accurate powder measure. And the Dillon 550 doesn't self-index.
3. RCBS, because they are built like tanks, and the Hornady primer feed mechanism can break.
OK, now, seriously, I too at the stage of wanting a progressive, and have been researching them, and danged if I can tell. It's just about to the stage, for me, of which one can I find a deal on. That'll probably make it a Dillon because there are so many more of 'em around. But I'm not convinced that the RL 550 is the best thing going. I'd get an RCBS Pro 2000 in a heartbeat, but they are a little pricey. The Hornady Lock-N-Load will probably do just fine too. As to customer support, Dillon has forced everybody else's hand--they're all getting really good, in self-defense.
1. Dillon, because everybody has one, and everybody will have an opinion about yours. The customer support is w/o peer.
2. Hornady, because they work better than Dillons, and have a more accurate powder measure. And the Dillon 550 doesn't self-index.
3. RCBS, because they are built like tanks, and the Hornady primer feed mechanism can break.
OK, now, seriously, I too at the stage of wanting a progressive, and have been researching them, and danged if I can tell. It's just about to the stage, for me, of which one can I find a deal on. That'll probably make it a Dillon because there are so many more of 'em around. But I'm not convinced that the RL 550 is the best thing going. I'd get an RCBS Pro 2000 in a heartbeat, but they are a little pricey. The Hornady Lock-N-Load will probably do just fine too. As to customer support, Dillon has forced everybody else's hand--they're all getting really good, in self-defense.
Deavis
Member
Give Cortland a few minutes to post. He's got a really good article on why he chose the Hornady LNL over the Dillon 650XL.
Why don't you give some more information about what calibers you plan to load and how much volume you expect. That makes a big difference in what press you select.
Why don't you give some more information about what calibers you plan to load and how much volume you expect. That makes a big difference in what press you select.
Deavis
I'm really not asking this question for myself. This question is for a person making his first purchase of a progressive press. He wants a press to load pistol cartridges and probably 223 and 308 in rifle cartridges. Maybe used more for pistol cartridges. Probably just a weekend shooter. I used to have a Dillon 550 but I am only loading on a single stage press or two now and my info on progressives is probably not up to date hence the question.
I'm really not asking this question for myself. This question is for a person making his first purchase of a progressive press. He wants a press to load pistol cartridges and probably 223 and 308 in rifle cartridges. Maybe used more for pistol cartridges. Probably just a weekend shooter. I used to have a Dillon 550 but I am only loading on a single stage press or two now and my info on progressives is probably not up to date hence the question.
Cortland
Member
Well, I might suggest that you read my article, Don't Drink the Blue Kool-Aid. I'm a big fan of the Hornady Lock-N-Load. The Hornady press has it all over the Dillons in terms of ease of caliber conversion (will you be loading more than one caliber?), the accuracy and ease of use of the powder measure, conversion costs, primer de-capping design, etc. And yes, if you break a part on your Hornady press, Hornady will expect you to pay $3 for a replacement. That's fine, I don't like the idea of paying inflated prices for a press in order to subsidize others' carelessness. I also like the rigidity of the Hornady for progressively loading rifle calibers. Everyone else has a removeable toolhead -- thanks to their Lock-N-Load bushings, the Hornady has a solid top-plate. Read the article.
I have Dillon 550B's. I have had no problems with them at all. Cortland and some others have had trouble or accuracy issues with the powder measure, I haven't. The Dillon measure is very accurate and boringly consistent for me. I am set up to load 12 calibers on a regular basis, and have 17 total that I can reload on it. IIRC the US Palma team loaded their practice ammo on a 550, if it is accurate and consistent and rigid enough for them it is certainly good enough for most everyone else.
If I could do it over I would only buy one 550 and use it for rifle ammo and short run pistol ammo. The second progresssive would be a 650 for calibers I shoot a lot of.
In the last 3 years I have put over 100K rounds across my 550's. Good press for sure.
If I could do it over I would only buy one 550 and use it for rifle ammo and short run pistol ammo. The second progresssive would be a 650 for calibers I shoot a lot of.
In the last 3 years I have put over 100K rounds across my 550's. Good press for sure.
Lennyjoe
Member
I picked up a Lee progressive 4 hole press from someone here online for a starter press. I did a few minor parts changes and its been fine for me.
I'd like to get a Dillon 550 sooner or later though.
I'd like to get a Dillon 550 sooner or later though.
gobabygo
Member
I have a Dillon 550 and 650 both of which I bought used and got very good deals on. I load for pistol competitions so I'm primarily interested in volume. I haven't even seen the LnL and based on what Corland says I might need to look into it.
An early post stated that what you plan to load, and especially the volume, will determine which press (or at least drastically narrow it down) you buy. I agree with this. I own two Lee Pro 1000 progressives, and they work fine, for the pistol calibers I load on them, and in the quantities I shoot. I don't anticipate wearing them out. However, if you're loading ammo in the quantities necessary for competition/practice in many of today's high-volume courses of fire, say a couple of thousand rounds a month, I wouldn't consider a press like the Lee. I believe you'd wear it out in a few years.
I also own a Dillon XL650 that I've had for a few years, and I think very highly of it, and use it to load both pistol and bottleneck rifle ammo. It produces very high quality ammunition, and I have had none of the problems with the powder measure or primer feed that I've read about in various forums. I should also mention, however, that the Dillon is "too much press" for the volume I shoot.
Whatever you do, don't get caught up in the "color religion" that seems so pervasive when it comes to progressive presses. I think all the major brands out there, from what I've read, will do the job, and if you're having problems, their customer service will help you get back on track. The service is as important as anything else; I've called customer service at Dillon, Lee, Lyman, Mec, and RCBS for one thing or another over going on forty years of reloading, and have always received prompt, courteous, and efficient service.
I also own a Dillon XL650 that I've had for a few years, and I think very highly of it, and use it to load both pistol and bottleneck rifle ammo. It produces very high quality ammunition, and I have had none of the problems with the powder measure or primer feed that I've read about in various forums. I should also mention, however, that the Dillon is "too much press" for the volume I shoot.
Whatever you do, don't get caught up in the "color religion" that seems so pervasive when it comes to progressive presses. I think all the major brands out there, from what I've read, will do the job, and if you're having problems, their customer service will help you get back on track. The service is as important as anything else; I've called customer service at Dillon, Lee, Lyman, Mec, and RCBS for one thing or another over going on forty years of reloading, and have always received prompt, courteous, and efficient service.
Deavis
Member
I think it all boils down to the volume that you load. I started with a rockchuker and a bunch of accessories I purchased from the widow of a man that reloaded. I paid $100 and got 4 die sets, 10 lbs of powder (Some of it was Hercules Red-Dot in cans older than me!), a bunch of bullets, and all the necessary accessories. Used it a couple times and I bought an RCBS Pro 2000.
The Pro 2000 is a damn good press but I had real trouble with the priming system (both APS and ram prime). RCBS customer service was excellent and they sent me new parts, at no charge, that helped with the problem but never eliminated it completely. ~5% of the primers would come out upside down with the ram and there were always feed issues with the APS. I traded that to a member on here for an SAR-2 w/ scope and have never regretted it. It is a great press but the manual indexing was just not fast enough for the volume I was starting to shoot. The great thing about a self indexing press is that you can easily slow it down and do the "single-stage" thing if you want!
After the Pro 2000, I bought a 650XL and have been very happy with it. Dillon really does run a quality business and each time I have had a problem (2 times) they fixed it without question. My only beef with the Dillon is that they use these, for lack of better words, "coil insert threads" in the plastic pieces. It is very easy to pull them out if you are over zealous in your tightening. Other than that one caveat, the quality of the Dillon components is excellent.
Now, my understanding is that the LNL has an advantage in changing to different calibers but you can always equip your press with that same system by buying the inserts for your toolhead. I chose to purchase separate toolheads because I just pop it in there, change the shell plate, feed pieces, and in well under 5 minutes I'm loading a new round to the same specs I used for the last one. The Pro 2000 requires you to do some setup when you change calibers as well, so it isn't like the 650XL is out of the norm for caliber changes. The convenience of the change with a separate toolhead is worth the money to me.
While Cortland would like to make it seem like the press is over-priced so that I can get $12 of parts for free, I think that the quality of the press itself is worth every penny I paid. The no-hassle LIFETIME warranty is just an upside to the situation. I've never used a LNL so I can't comment on it but temper your decision understanding that I load in way higher volume than Cortland and my perception is very different than his. He cranks out 1000 of a round when he loads, I do at least 4000 a session. The primer feed and casefeed have been flawless on my 650XL and the only time I slow down if for a bad piece of brass or to replenish components.
An example of Dillon service. I was having some difficulty when feeding cases into the shell plate. I took the slide assembly parts out and discovered that the spring was no longer holding tension. One of the cam pieces had a crack around the threads (they were also coming out due to early over-torquing). I had a spare spring but went ahead and cleaned up the other came piece... with Powder-Blast. So, now I had a bad spring, a cracked piece, and a really ugly second piece. I called Dillon, explained my mistake and the condition of the other two items last Friday. Today, I received an entire assembly for free despite telling them that I was more than willing to pay for my part of it. The conversation took 2 minutes, his reply to me offering to pay was, "We are here to keep you reloading. The parts will be in the mail today."
I don't think you can go wrong with any of the current progressive presses, you should just have your friend do some thinking on what his expectations are and match them to the options available.
The Pro 2000 is a damn good press but I had real trouble with the priming system (both APS and ram prime). RCBS customer service was excellent and they sent me new parts, at no charge, that helped with the problem but never eliminated it completely. ~5% of the primers would come out upside down with the ram and there were always feed issues with the APS. I traded that to a member on here for an SAR-2 w/ scope and have never regretted it. It is a great press but the manual indexing was just not fast enough for the volume I was starting to shoot. The great thing about a self indexing press is that you can easily slow it down and do the "single-stage" thing if you want!
After the Pro 2000, I bought a 650XL and have been very happy with it. Dillon really does run a quality business and each time I have had a problem (2 times) they fixed it without question. My only beef with the Dillon is that they use these, for lack of better words, "coil insert threads" in the plastic pieces. It is very easy to pull them out if you are over zealous in your tightening. Other than that one caveat, the quality of the Dillon components is excellent.
Now, my understanding is that the LNL has an advantage in changing to different calibers but you can always equip your press with that same system by buying the inserts for your toolhead. I chose to purchase separate toolheads because I just pop it in there, change the shell plate, feed pieces, and in well under 5 minutes I'm loading a new round to the same specs I used for the last one. The Pro 2000 requires you to do some setup when you change calibers as well, so it isn't like the 650XL is out of the norm for caliber changes. The convenience of the change with a separate toolhead is worth the money to me.
While Cortland would like to make it seem like the press is over-priced so that I can get $12 of parts for free, I think that the quality of the press itself is worth every penny I paid. The no-hassle LIFETIME warranty is just an upside to the situation. I've never used a LNL so I can't comment on it but temper your decision understanding that I load in way higher volume than Cortland and my perception is very different than his. He cranks out 1000 of a round when he loads, I do at least 4000 a session. The primer feed and casefeed have been flawless on my 650XL and the only time I slow down if for a bad piece of brass or to replenish components.
An example of Dillon service. I was having some difficulty when feeding cases into the shell plate. I took the slide assembly parts out and discovered that the spring was no longer holding tension. One of the cam pieces had a crack around the threads (they were also coming out due to early over-torquing). I had a spare spring but went ahead and cleaned up the other came piece... with Powder-Blast. So, now I had a bad spring, a cracked piece, and a really ugly second piece. I called Dillon, explained my mistake and the condition of the other two items last Friday. Today, I received an entire assembly for free despite telling them that I was more than willing to pay for my part of it. The conversation took 2 minutes, his reply to me offering to pay was, "We are here to keep you reloading. The parts will be in the mail today."
I don't think you can go wrong with any of the current progressive presses, you should just have your friend do some thinking on what his expectations are and match them to the options available.
Cortland, et al,
I am moving from a Lee single stage press to a progressive (isn't everybody?). I have MANY Lee dies which I like. Can the Hornady Lock and Load use Lee dies? Can the Dillon 550 or 650 use Lee dies? I reload mostly 45 ACP. 45 Colt, 9MM, 38 Spl., .32 French Long, .380 ACP and various rifle cartridges, including 7.65 MAS. Thanks, BTW, nice article on the LnL Cortland.
I am moving from a Lee single stage press to a progressive (isn't everybody?). I have MANY Lee dies which I like. Can the Hornady Lock and Load use Lee dies? Can the Dillon 550 or 650 use Lee dies? I reload mostly 45 ACP. 45 Colt, 9MM, 38 Spl., .32 French Long, .380 ACP and various rifle cartridges, including 7.65 MAS. Thanks, BTW, nice article on the LnL Cortland.
dmftoy1
Member
Yup, the dillon can use the Lee dies. (I use a few Lee dies on mine). The only thing you need to be aware of is that if you have a 3 die pistol set, and want to use a separate die to seat/crimp then you'll need to purchase another die. (otherwise it will load just like you do now with seating/crimping in the same station)
I'm pretty sure the same is true for the Hornady and RCBS progressives. The one exception is the Dillon "Square Deal" which will not use the standard dies.
Have a good one,
Dave
I'm pretty sure the same is true for the Hornady and RCBS progressives. The one exception is the Dillon "Square Deal" which will not use the standard dies.
Have a good one,
Dave
Cortland
Member
The Hornady LnL and the Dillon 550 and 650 will work all with your Lee dies. Of course you'll have to buy toolheads/LnL bushings and a powder die for each set.
Another advantage of the Hornady bushing system over the RCBS/Dillon toolhead system is that if you have a 1) Lee Classic Cast with a Lock-N-Load conversion bushing or 2) a Hornady LnL single stage, you can move dies from your LnL AP progressive to your single stage without adjustment.
Another advantage of the Hornady bushing system over the RCBS/Dillon toolhead system is that if you have a 1) Lee Classic Cast with a Lock-N-Load conversion bushing or 2) a Hornady LnL single stage, you can move dies from your LnL AP progressive to your single stage without adjustment.
juggler
Member
Like HSMITH I have a 550B Dillon. I just finished loading 300 rounds of .40, then quickly (not hurried, just easy) switched to .38 and cranked out another 200 rounds.
While this was going on I broke the small primer seating punch. I then went to my spare parts kit, replaced the part, and continued loading. When I was done I called Dillon, told then what broke and asked for a replacement. It should be here next week, at no charge for the part or shipping. You can't beat the service or the quality.
I like that fact that, while it is a progresssive, I have to index it manually. This enables me to check every 10th load for accuracy.......again agreeing with HSMITH, it is boringly consistant.
While this was going on I broke the small primer seating punch. I then went to my spare parts kit, replaced the part, and continued loading. When I was done I called Dillon, told then what broke and asked for a replacement. It should be here next week, at no charge for the part or shipping. You can't beat the service or the quality.
I like that fact that, while it is a progresssive, I have to index it manually. This enables me to check every 10th load for accuracy.......again agreeing with HSMITH, it is boringly consistant.
Peter M. Eick
Member
I like the pro2000 because it is steel or cast iron. It is manual advance, aps primers (a huge plus to me) and it has worked well.
I have loaded over 162,000 rnds on mine so far and have not KB-ed a gun on it yet and have not yet squibbed a round either. This to me is a reasonable press and if it had any really glaring flaws I would have replaced it.
Now if RCBS could make a 7 station progressive press, I would buy it!
I have loaded over 162,000 rnds on mine so far and have not KB-ed a gun on it yet and have not yet squibbed a round either. This to me is a reasonable press and if it had any really glaring flaws I would have replaced it.
Now if RCBS could make a 7 station progressive press, I would buy it!
jamz
Member
I think the only reason to get a Dillon is to avoid the eye-rolling that you'll otherwise encounter. The Hornady Lock n load looks like a great press.
-James
-James
Peter M. Eick
Member
Ain't that the truth....
Black Snowman
Member
I have a Lee Load Master. If I ever decide to take the hit on replacing it to "upgrade" it would be to a Hornady. I really like the bushing die system. I find myself changing out individual dies in my press quite often and that would make things much quicker and handier. I'd get a L-N-L insert for my Lee Classic Cast at the same time. 
Additionally, I wouldn't want to try to live with just 4 die stations. When I was shopping initially it was a battle between the Load Master and Dillon 650 XL. Because of inital and conversion costs the Lee won and I've been pretty happy with it.
Additionally, I wouldn't want to try to live with just 4 die stations. When I was shopping initially it was a battle between the Load Master and Dillon 650 XL. Because of inital and conversion costs the Lee won and I've been pretty happy with it.
trickyasafox
Member
hows hornady's customer service? Lee's is great. i've heard great things about dillion, but i havent heard anything bout hornady, anyone ever call em?
hairtrigger
Member
In 18 years of owning Hornady products I have called them twice.
Both times equaled my experience with Dillon products, I explained what happened and went to my mailbox to get the replacement part.
I have never used Tech support with either company
Both times equaled my experience with Dillon products, I explained what happened and went to my mailbox to get the replacement part.
I have never used Tech support with either company
SASS#23149
Member
Pilot,re: LEE dies in a 550b. the older dies(not sure what years) were a bit too short,but folks found that you could put the lock ring below the die plate and use 'em that way just fine.I've heard that newer Lee dies are longer .
Love my 550b!!
Love my 550b!!
I just purchased a Hornady LNL AP and it is a fantastic press. It was a toss up for me between the Hornady and a Dillon 550B. I went for the Hornady just to be "different" and to save some money on caliber changes etc. The Hornady quick change system is cheaper than the Dillon equivalent and the press is auto indexing. What turned me off to Dillon is they soak you pretty good for something as simple as a box to catch the ammo. The initial cost of the press was pretty close, although Hornady is cheaper.....plus you don't spend as much for acessories and caliber changes.
I'm very happy with my choice. I've called them twice for help and both times they have been pleasant and solved my problem. One required sending a new part which was here in 4 days. (I broke the primer feed slider, completely my fault and they replaced it, no questions asked with only an email request to customer service).
I don't know how Dillon customer service can be better than that.......
Oh and the case activated powder drop is fantastic......nearly impossible for you to get a double charge and the powder filled case is right in front of you when you seat the bullet so its easy to see any inconsistent drops.
Hornady also sells a micrometer powder measure insert that is super to adjust and is VERY VERY consistent.
I'm very happy with my choice. I've called them twice for help and both times they have been pleasant and solved my problem. One required sending a new part which was here in 4 days. (I broke the primer feed slider, completely my fault and they replaced it, no questions asked with only an email request to customer service).
I don't know how Dillon customer service can be better than that.......
Oh and the case activated powder drop is fantastic......nearly impossible for you to get a double charge and the powder filled case is right in front of you when you seat the bullet so its easy to see any inconsistent drops.
Hornady also sells a micrometer powder measure insert that is super to adjust and is VERY VERY consistent.
Lloyd Smale
Member
im a dillon fan through and through ive got 6 of there presses set up and love every one of them. That being said ive used the hornady and its a real nice press too. As long as you stay away from the lees you will do fine.
Just a thought
Before you buy check the resale value of any press. My money is in Dillon 550 and 650 for both pistol and rifle. As for some rifle rounds I do load them on my single stage Rock Chucker.
Powder measurers should be checked for consistancy as you are loading. My 650 and 550 are very accurate and with pistol rounds you don't need to be too anal with the powder charge.
Before you buy check the resale value of any press. My money is in Dillon 550 and 650 for both pistol and rifle. As for some rifle rounds I do load them on my single stage Rock Chucker.
Powder measurers should be checked for consistancy as you are loading. My 650 and 550 are very accurate and with pistol rounds you don't need to be too anal with the powder charge.
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