Would you ever suggest...

[X-Ring]

That is all fine and great and true, but we are recommending this to people we do not know and will not be present when they are learning. I can, and do, teach people to load on my XL 650 without problems. But we do not know the mechanical ability or the patience level of the person we are recommending this to. Just because one guy has no problems learning on a progressive doesn’t mean no one will.
If you get rid of the distractions it is easier to learn.

 

[GRIZ22]

I've been using a single stage for over 40 years now. Too many new shooters just want to pull the handle 50 times and have a box of ammo. On another forum I go on, a guy has blown up his primer feed twice because he uses Federal primers, supposedly the softest there is. He uses them becau see he uses a S&W he has swapped springs in to give him a 4 1/2 lb trigger pull. He thinks he knows more than Grant Cunningham or any other premier revolversmith.

Maybe next time he'll set off the powder reservoir and burn his face off.

 

[Robert101]

In my experience world, you learn more by taking it slow on a single stage press as you are only dealing with a smaller set of variables. That is the way I started and now years latter on a progressive I feel very confident in the reloaded ammo my family shoots. Sometimes it isn't always about "YOU" there are other people and situations that can suffer from a mishap in this sport. I really wouldn't look twice if someone wants to start on a progressive, I just would not want to be shooting next to them nor trust their first few hundred reloads.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Providing we are talking pistol ammo. I don't see the struggle being too hard for many people.

I went from an old Lee Whack-a-Mole hammering out .38's to shoot in my brothers model 19 to using a buddies 550 many years later. Guess it was easier for me than some because i had a chance to at least get an idea of what has to be done and why.

The transition was made easier for me as the first 2 times i used it it was already set up.

Looking back i would have to say i would have still got the press going and ran pistol just fine. But I'm speaking for myself. YMMV

 

[Mostly Lead]

Sort of depends on why the person is getting into reloading as well.

I started almost 20 yrs ago on a single stage press and haven't felt the need to change. I don't reload for volume and simply enjoy the process - each step of the process.

It's a big world out there, room enough to forge our own paths.

 

[dragon813gt]

That is all fine and great and true, but we are recommending this to people we do not know and will not be present when they are learning.

Simple solution, don't recommend something like this to someone you don't know. And at the end of the day even if I do recommend it, it's on that person to learn to use it properly. It's called personal responsibility and everyone should know their own limits.

W/ YouTube there are tons of videos to watch. You should be able to make the decision if you can handle a progressive by watching them. I take very little stock in recommendations/reviews. All I'm looking for is quality control issues. Everything else is personal preferences jaded by emotions. An yes, I am a cynical person.

 

[Walkalong]

I don't know about the 650, but with an LNL it is easy to load just like a single stage.

Put in the sizer only, and then run cases through it, priming as you go or hand prime afterwards.

Put in the expander, and run cases through it.

Either drop powder in the cases in load blocks, then put in the seater and run cases through seating bullets, or set up the measure to drop powder and the seater die in the next station and run cases through.

Seat and crimp at the same time, or run the cases all through again with nothing but a crimper.

It wouldn't take long doing this to get a handle on the various steps and be able to start combining them. If you were smart and used/adjusted each die in the proper station, you're all set up to do multiple steps at once now.

 

[Valkman]

I jumped right in with a 550B from Dillon and have never had a problem. As I've said before, I LIKE manual indexing and have used the 550B as a single stage many times. I've added another 550B and think that anyone who'd be competent on a single stage press could use a 550B.

I have a single stage press and never liked using it, but that's probably from learning the 550B first.

 

[scythefwd]

I always suggest folks learn on a single stage, so they can see every little thing happening without distraction. Whether its their first press or one of mine, then all is good. I do generally let folks come to my house and learn using my single stage if they dont want to buy one themselves.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

I statrted metallic reloading on a progressive press. You can put one round in at a time and do each step one by itself, then one you have a throug understanding run it fully loaded.

I wouldn't suggest a single stage be used to load for many gun games unless the person had a lot of extra time on their hands.

If you are reloading 50-100 rounds of rifle rounds for accuracy you might find a single stage much more useful.

Plus you need one to size bullets. And if you need to run a collet die to pull bullets its mighty handy too.

Anything where precision comes in and there's not a large number to load i use the single stage.

So in defense of rc models statement a single stage is more necessary than one might think. I remember when i got my progressive and mentioned selling the single stage. Glad many jumped in an said something because i needed it many times.

 

[jmorris]

If you are reloading 50-100 rounds of rifle rounds for accuracy you might find a single stage much more useful.

Plus you need one to size bullets.

I have gone as much as 20 years without a single stage press before so I wouldn't say they are needed. I actually prefer turret presses myself to a SS most of the time but there is not much that one can do on a SS that couldn't also be done on a 550.

 

[Nature Boy]

I started reloading on a 650, after much deliberation, research and feedback from multiple users. I have no regrets and make some very accurate high quality .308 and .223 rifle ammo. I'm also a mechanically inclined guy who likes gadgets and is detail oriented.

It made sense for me.

I'll add one safety factor you get with a 650 which add some piece of mind for the new reloader and that's missing a charge or overcharging. It seems to me that would be a lot easier to do with a single stage process.

 

[double bogey]

I have a 650. I am also extremely mechanically inclined. If you can afford a 650, you should buy a turret or single stage at the same time to learn on. You could use it to size and prime while learning the 650, as the case feed and primer systems don't work well at all for anything but production loading. I have a single stage, a turret, and a 650, and they all get used.

I would not recommend starting on a 650, it can be done, but it would be much easier to fully understand the process on a ss or turret, and you will get going faster when you do go progressive.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

I have gone as much as 20 years without a single stage press before so I wouldn't say they are needed. I actually prefer turret presses myself to a SS most of the time but there is not much that one can do on a SS that couldn't also be done on a 550.

Single stages are not needed if you don't load for accuracy. For sure. But need is a blanket statement.

I said you needed one for sizing bullets. Well i have sized with a Lee sizer die on a progressive. One bullet and i knew how bad an idea it was. I had to make an adapter just to do it.

Do you need a single stage for it? No. But its more trouble and it was made for a single stage press to begin with. The forces required to size a bullet are sometimes a lot and doing so on one side of a progressive or turret press can break or damage it. Especially a load master or pro1000. Don't know how many you have sized in your 20+ years but if you did them on a progressive you did them the hard way and maybe you didn't need a single stage press but you would have been much better of with one for bullet sizing.

Why i say a single stage better for accurate rifle loads:

Fact: Almost all bench rest shooters use a single stage other than bill whidden ( cut) ( fact 2) and unless your using his tool head and still loading charges by hand your not going to get that same consistency in charges or OAL for precision loads . Two of the biggest factors in the reloading process ( not case prep mind you) to insure accuracy and both are affected negatively by progressive reloading alone.

Now I'm sure some do fine reloading rifle rounds on a progressive for plinking and can manage average accuracy loads on them too. Heck i wouldn't sit on a single stage and stamp out a 1000 .223 loads for plinking. I would use a my progressive press for that.


Just to add there is the shoulder bump ( another process more accurate on a single stage) when Fl sizing. You may not do it and many do but if you get that wrong and bump too far you are causing the brass to be worked and stretched more than what is necessary in a place where the metal is not as soft. That weakens brass at the shoulder and can lead to early case failure.

But if your loading for different rifles of same caliber using one load and not loading for each rifle individually then your not loading for precision or accuracy as a result. So again, not needed but your not going to accomplish certain quality loads without certain changes. So for those that do seek that they have a good use for a single stage press.

 

[Rule3]

I think the main "advantage" of learning on a simple single stage is the redundancy factor, Batch loading MAKES a person go through the steps over and over and understand what is happening with reloading, Heck even putting every prepared case in a loading block and then charging with powder.

It is good to learn the basics.

Maybe when a lot of us learned to reload it was not because OMG! we must crank out ammo as it is so expensive. We stated reloading as a hobby and had interest in the whole procedure.

It seems these days many want to just do not want to learn and only interested in producing ammo as fast as they can. Heck some don't even buy manuals as the feel they can get everything online.

I started with a single stage but before I ordered any equipment I got all the free information from RCBS, LEE, Hornady and bought 3 manuals. I did my homework so to say. I am mechanically and technically inclined and probably could have stated with a progressive but my Dad (engineer) and years of schooling taught me to learn the basics first.

Why fart around learning the little quirks of a progressive machine and all that is going only when one should be concentrating on every single round until it is perfect?

 

[Nature Boy]

Far be it for me to disagree with folks like Rule3 and RC, but I get very accurate rifle loads with my 650. I've posted pictures of enough targets to prove that. I'll also say I'm not a competition bench rest shooter either. I'm just a guy enjoying the hobby and the learning process.

When I began the decision making process I was going to start with a single stage, but I read so many say the same thing, to the effect, "if I had it to do all over again, I would have started with the 650". I took that advice and have not looked back

 

[dragon813gt]

The more times an object is handled the greater the chance for error. Why do you think manufacturers cut out as much material handling by a human as possible. Progressives are no different. A novice loader using a loading block is scarier to me than a press mounted case activated powder measure w/ a powder cop die.

As far as needing a single stage press goes. Everyone has different needs. I have a bunch of them but they are used for single functions that I don't perform very often. The accuracy argument is kind of a moot point as well. Look at what Benchrest shooters use. A single stage is not an arbor press