Progressive process - 5 questions

[Nando Aqui]

I have been reloading with an RCBS Jr Press for many years, and I am now ready to buy a progressive press, either an RCBS Pro 2000 or a Dillon 550B.

Here is what I do now (batch process):
• Rifle (.308 & 30-06 for target; .223 for Hi-Power matches)
1. Dunk empty cases in can full of odorless mineral spirits to clean field/range junk, rinse & dry.
2. Lube
3. Size and de-cap
4. Dunk empty cases in can full of odorless mineral spirits to clean sizing grease, rinse & dry.
5. Tumble
6. Measure and trim as necessary
7. Prime
8. Powder charge – dispense each and every charge with a Lyman 1200 DPS and verify every 10 with the Lyman-Ohaus No.5 scale.
9. Press bullet

• Pistol (.45 ACP) primarily for IDPA
1. Dunk empty cases in can full of odorless mineral spirits to clean field/range junk, rinse & dry.
2. Lube
3. Size
4. De-cap & expand
5. Dunk empty cases in can full of odorless mineral spirits to clean sizing grease, rinse & dry.
6. Tumble
(No need to trim – yet anyway.)
7. Prime
8. Powder charge with Lyman No.5 thrower; weigh every 10 with Lyman-Ohaus No.5 scale
9. Press bullet and crimp as desired with same die

Since I don’t use as many .308 and 30-06, just several hundred per year, I will not be reloading them with the progressive press. I do want to reload the .223 for matches, as well as .45 ACP.

Questions:
From what I understand, the progressive process starts with the cleaned & lubed cases, and end with a loaded round, which begs the following:
1. If the cases progress from sizing/de-capping to the subsequent stations, when does the sizing lube get cleaned off?
2. What about tumbling?
3. What about trimming (the .223)?
4. Would the powder thrower, whether Dillon or RCBS, be sufficiently consistent with stick powders (Varget, for example) for the .223 for matches?
5. Will I have to get different .45 ACP dies that size-decap, expand, press bullet, and then a fourth die to crimp?

Thank you for your advice!

Alex

 

[standles]

I own a 550B and here is my procedure.

Start with once fire or range brass I picked up (needs cleaning)

Tumble in walnot media for a couple of hours till clean. The cases will be dull shined. If you want higher shine (not needed) you can tumble again in corncob media with polish added.

Use carbide dies on the straightwall cases (.45 .40 .38super comp) so don't normally use lube.

The powder charge (after innitial setting) gets checked every 100 rounds loaded (when I am adding primers). In over 5000 rounds I have only had to adjust it once. I also check settingso n crimp and OAL at this time.

Box up ammo in 100 round MTM cases at which point I inspect for high primers, wrinkled case etc. etc.

Case guage check 10 out of each box and call it good for practice ammo. Match ammo gets all same headstamp once fired and every round guaged.

Now I have loaded with case lube (hornady one shot). 3 or 4 sprays into 500 cases. roll around in a towel and let sit for 4 or 5 minues. Load as before (make it a little easier on press stroke). I don't remove the lube. SOME people will harp on it increasing battering of the gun as it interferes with the casing sealing in the chamber during fire. I disagree as I know two folks that shoot way more than I do and don't remove the lube. They don't have problems and they are shooting high pressure loads.

Hope that answers some ofyour questions

Steven

 

[Jim Watson]

Caution, I still load rifle ammo single stage, I have only had progressive loaders for 27 years and am not yet ready to use them for rifle ammo, especially not match stuff.

1. Use a spray sizing lube, clean off the loaded rifle round with a rag damp with mineral spirits. Or tumble again. The factories manage to tumble loaded ammo in spite of all the internet warnings. Lubing pistol brass is a waste of time, everybody makes carbide sizing dies that need no lube except maybe a tiny bit on virgin brass.

2. What about it? Tumbling good, dirty bad.

3. You can get a Dillon trimmer to go on the press or you can gauge and trim separately. I don't find it necessary to trim every use.

4. I cannot measure Varget closely enough to suit me for match ammo. I may be too finicky, see the first question at:
http://www.beast-enterprises.com/dillonQA.html
If you want to continue to weight dispense powder charges, no reason not to replace the progressive's powder measure with a funnel, like on the semi progressive Dillon AT500.

5. You can use your present dies, but I would definitely get a carbide sizing die so I didn't have to lube a straight pistol case. You will not use an expander die on a Dillon, case flare is done by the "powder funnel"; I don't know about the RCBS. You can continue to seat and crimp in one step but the nice thing about a progressive is that you can do it separately with no extra handling.

 

[P0832177]

For the 45ACP I tumble clean the brass after firing. I sort by headstamp, only because of the guns that get certain head stamps. Fed and WW feed the 625's, and all else feeds the USP's.

I slip a lubed case in once ever 50 pcs of brass. Seems to make the stroke of the 550 smoother from my point of view. I did try the One Shot to the whole lot of brass, but I decided that was just a bit sticky!

Some powders and the Dillon powder measure are not friendly, IE W296 and H110 come to mind. Stick powders have a bad rep, but they can be dealt with as Jim has pointed out.

Rifle brass loading!

For the 223 I process the brass this way.

I tumble the brass just to clean it up, not polish it.
Then I lube it and resize on a single stage press.
Then I break out the Giraud Trimmer - in one pass I trim, deburr, and chamfer the case mouth!
Then I clean out the primer pocket.
Now I polish the brass to spiffy clean status.

I then throw a universal decapper in station one of the 550 tool head, this gets rid of the errant tumbling media.
The rest is simple!
Station One Prime
Station Two Powder
Station Three Seat Bullet
Station Four Crimp as needed, I only crimp blasting ammo!

This has worked for me for 20 years!

God only knows how many 308 and 223 shells I have loaded this way!

 

[stoky]

I load with a Dillion 650
answers, IMHO:
1. I clean the lube off the finished rounds with a rag as I do a visual inspection.
2. I tumble empty brass without depriming. I tumble to clean the brass. I don't polish it and I don't think it is a good idea to tumble loaded rounds.
3. Dillon makes a die with a motor and trimmer in it that fits into one of the stations.
4. Varget meters well out of the Dillon measures. For near max or target loads I still weigh every charge and try to set the measure a little light, finishing up with a trickler. Some of the longer rod powders don't meter as well as Varget.
5. RCBS will send (free) you the stem to deprime in the sizing die. I don't crimp .45 ACP. If you want to taper crimp these I'm thinking that it would be best to do it with a seperate die, subsequent to bullet seating.

 

[caz223]

I don't usually clean primer pockets, it makes no difference.
If you obtain brass from an unknown source, I'd tumble, deprime/expand, then chuck a primer pocket brush in a drill, and clean 'em all before they go into the population.
Otherwise, I have good sucess cleaning primer pockets just before they're too dirty to seat fully, say 10x fired.
Otherwise:
Tumble.
Shake out media.
Dump 100 or so into an akro-bin.
Spray on a little one shot.
Stir up brass a little and start loading.
Check your OAL and powder drop every time you fill the primer tube.
If you're anal about QC like me, you'll dump your finished rounds into a plastic holder (I like the ones that blazer .45 comes loaded in.) examine the primers for flush seating, then put another case over top, flip over, then inspect bullets for OAL, seating, and deformation. Then dump into baggies of 100. (2 ammo holders worth.)
Be sure to include in the baggie the load particulars on a piece of paper, assign a lot# and log the time, date, and number of rounds loaded in your loading log book.
The record keeping has helped me MANY times more than being anal about primer pocket cleanliness.
QC and record keeping is sadly forgotten IMHO, but the first time you catch a mistake or a potential problem you'll recoup all your time, and thank yourself.
As fast and easy as it is, don't load too many in one sitting.
Don't load for longer than 2 hours without taking a break.
Trying to outrun your machine is where problems start. That, and being careless.
I load on a 550, and I load 20k a year.
It's all the machine I need.
Oh, btw if station 4 has a lee factory crimp die in it then your ammo will always chamber.
Also, I velcroed a small AA LED flashlight on the 550 so I can look into EVERY case to check for powder.

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

Just curious as to why you're not considering the Hornady LNL AP, since most folks that don't rule out anything un-blue consider both the 2000 and the AP.

Andy

 

[snuffy]

Dillon 650

For pistol/revolver I tumble till shiny using corn cob and midway polish or flitz. Then into the case feeder. I never use lube on handgun brass, the carbide dies don't need it and it eliminates the need to remove the lube later.

For rifle, again tumble til shiny, then RCBS case slick spray lube in a plastic bowl and then into the case feeder. I use the standard Hornady FL sizer but not the dillon bar-type measure. I got the Hornady case activated measure die, which can be used with either the Hornady measure or RCBS. I can measure any type of powder with the Hornady measure to close enough for government work. The longer grain powders don't get used for the .223 and .308 that I load on the 650. I do use the dillon powder check die, but have it turned around in the #4 hole, leaving #3 open.





Here's a better look at the case activated powder die linkage with the powder check die removed.



After loading I tumble in bare corn cob for 10-15 minutes to remove lube.

My main load for .223 is the 60 grain V-Max, 24.0 wc-844,(H-335), WSP, and a mixture of cases. I sometimes get 55 grain soft points from Midway or even FMJ if they're on sale!

Nando, mineral spirits??? *** for? No reason to do that to your brass, aren't you worried about the residue that stuff leaves behind?

 

[standles]

Just curious as to why you're not considering the Hornady LNL AP, since most folks that don't rule out anything un-blue consider both the 2000 and the AP.

Andy

I used to laugh at the fanatical following Dillon has obtained. I scoffed at folks who said they were the best press made. I mean it is a shell plate that mvoes up and down with the pull of a handle right? How difficult can it be?

I have owned one RCBS and two of the hornady presses. One pre LNL and another that was LNL. I had problems with both and ended giving the pre LNL to a friend up donating the LNL to the club as a raffle item. I bought the Dillon 550B and reloading became fun again not a hassle. Just one persons experience you mileage may vary.

 

[45Frank]

Well to all you progressice types I also need some advice. I've been reloading for about fifteen yrs. now went from a LEE single stage, Fine. To a LYMAN T-Max terret also Fine. But now I'm looking to move up some to a progressive but.
I also have range brass and find that after cleaning and such there is always dirt in the primer hole, which I clean each and everyone. eith the progressive does anyone find this a problem or am I being overly cautious.

I'll sit back and read all the post now.
Thanks

 

[standles]

I am going to vote on overly cautious.

I always tumble my range brass to clean not polish. When I put the case in the shell holder i give a quick glance down the mouth of the case for a spent primer, rock, etc. that may be stuck. Other than that the decapper punches it out and I move on.


Later, Steven

 

[Father Knows Best]

I load about 10,000 rounds of pistol ammo annually on my Dillon RL550B. I have never cleaned a primer pocket, and don't see any need to.

With straight walled cartridges like .45 ACP, .45 Colt, and .44 Russian/Special/Magnum, I use carbide dies and so don't lube the cases. I just tumble them in crushed walnut to clean and then they go straight to the press for loading.

I do lube 44-40 and 38-40 cases, because the bottleneck design means that carbide dies are not available. To lube, I just dump them from the tumbler in an old cardboard box top and give them one quick shot of spray case lube. I shake the box a few times to get them all coated, and then start loading. I don't bother trying to remove the lube, because it's such a light coating as to barely be detectable and I've never had a problem with just leaving them as is. When the loaded cartridge bin fills up, I just move them into cartridge boxes with a quick glance along the way to look for anything out of the ordinary.

 

[Nando Aqui]

I asked these questions at several websites. The responses have been numerous, very interesting and informative. I am compiling the responses to post them for all.

But I need to answer two specific questions now:

Andy: Yes, I considered the Hornady LNL AP, but then decided against it because the other two seem to have a much greater following.

Snuffy: I learned (40+ years ago) the use of mineral spirits to clean tools and other machinery parts, and it works well. I then read about reloaders using it to clean brass, I tried it and liked it. Do note that I tumble AFTER I use the mineral spirits, so the cases are clean and dry before I prime and powder- charge.

I also have a large (safety red) container with mineral spirits in which I stir and brush metal firearm parts after I clean them with the various solvents I use. I then wipe dry the parts and lubricate as needed.

However, if you are aware of any problems using mineral spirits, please do let me know.

Alex

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

I have owned one RCBS and two of the hornady presses. One pre LNL and another that was LNL. I had problems with both and ended giving the pre LNL to a friend up donating the LNL to the club as a raffle item. I bought the Dillon 550B and reloading became fun again not a hassle. Just one persons experience you mileage may vary.

Standles, was your 2nd LNL model prior to the casefeeder availability? I've heard that the improved primer feed that was phased in with the casefeeder (with the new subplate) cleared up most of the problems. I've heard of a lot of problems before then, but not too many afterwards. Just trying to get more info myself.

Andy

 

[standles]

Both my hornady presses were pre case feeder. Vince, a friend has one with the case feeder. We were at a poker party where the host had a 650 setup. Vince loaded 100 rounds on it and now has a 650 with the honandy catching dust. He keeps it for loading rifle cartridges longer than .308