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prone shooting & scope height

Discussion in 'Competition Shooting' started by Col. Harrumph, Jul 11, 2017.

  1. Col. Harrumph

    Col. Harrumph Member

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    Seems to me that you'd want to mount your scope as high up as your cheek weld will allow. Amirite?
     
  2. rskent

    rskent Member

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    Why is that?
     
  3. Col. Harrumph

    Col. Harrumph Member

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    For comfort, and so your head's position when prone is as close as feasible to your more upright sitting/kneeling & offhand positions; and if you wear glasses, so you can look through the center of the lens instead of the top edge, which is awkward and can introduce distortion.
     
  4. Hoser

    Hoser Moderator

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    Depends on the game.

    Confort comes at a price.
     
  5. badkarmamib

    badkarmamib Member

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    I feel like it is mostly subjective. Most shooters condemn see-through, but my Remington 700 wears them, because when I settle behind it, standing, sitting, or kneeling, the scope is centered in front of my eye. I have to crane my neck slightly for prone, but, any lower and I would be jutting my chin forward, if that makes sense. HOWEVER, my Traditions inline muzzleloader wears low rings, because, again, it fits me. My Marlin 336 no longer wears a scope, because they don't make rings that co-witness with the bore ;). I feel that the best rings overall are the ones that position the scope properly without having to adjust yourself, and each person's physical form is different, so, see my opening sentence.:D
     
  6. Sunray

    Sunray Member

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    Like badkarmamib says, the scope should be mounted so your eye is right behind the sight and you can see the entire sight picture in any position. There is no right or wrong way. "It fits me." describes it well.
    If you wear glasses you'll be adjusting the distance between the lens and the rear ocular. Or not wearing specs at all.
     
  7. Soupy44

    Soupy44 Member

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    For seeing purposes, you'd want it at the height that centers your eye in it's socket so you look straight out through the center of the scope. Prone doesn't make this ideal setup easy, as you will probably look up at least a little.

    My experience is a lot of smallbore shooting, 3p and prone. Your games position requirements may vary.
     
  8. rskent

    rskent Member

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    That sounds like a tall order. I would be happy if I was in prone with a good consistent cheek weld. And when I look forward I am centered in the scope, or sights. In a perfect world having you eye centered would be great. I have never been that lucky.


    Just a random thought. What shape would your head have to be, to get a good cheek weld and be centered on your scope and have your eyes centered.
     
  9. Soupy44

    Soupy44 Member

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    When I wrote that I was assuming a slinged position, didn't consider it might be a prone rested position which tends to be a lower position. A higher prone position would make the eye look out of it's socket in a more centered alignment.

    Agreed, perfectly centered is a tall order, I know my position is not perfect. I rebuilt my prone position while shooting in college to be higher with great results.
     
  10. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    If you're shooting in an appropriate positions such your face is "flat" to the target, no matter which position, you'll not have a problem with eye relief or scope height change.
     
  11. Klint Beastwood

    Klint Beastwood Member

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  12. Klint Beastwood

    Klint Beastwood Member

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    Also I've always followed whatever feels natural behind a scoped rifle. As I am setting it up...I set up the cheek weld, then eye relief then verify the cheek weld then verify that it feels natural int he prone sitting and standing. Works for me at any rate.
     
  13. Soupy44

    Soupy44 Member

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    What feels natural is a good rule of thumb, I second that. Prone is the least natural of all the positions is what makes it hard.
     
  14. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    It depends on how you are shooting. If you are shooting a match where you're required to move from one position to the next on the clock, then adjusting your LOP and comb height to match your position doesn't work. If you're shooting only occasionally and all fixed position, sure, take a few minutes to set the stock before you get started. In the field, it's a wasted time, and on the clock at a match, it's like dragging an anchor.
     
  15. ponchh

    ponchh Member

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    Scope as close the bore center line as possible is always better, with a good sight picture of course. Make changing distance's more predictable.
     
  16. Bwana John

    Bwana John Member

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    .Prone is the least natural of all the positions is what makes it hard.

    ???????????

    I find it the easiest position.

    It is the position I started out shooting in, and the position with my advanced age I have returned to.

    I hear from the even older guys that at some point you have too much problems getting back up off the ground to use it.
     
  17. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    You broke the seal, my friend. I was trying to leave that one alone, but it's been bugging me this week.

    Laying down is the most natural position in the human condition. Laying on our back is more natural than our front, but any laying position is more relaxed than any weight supported position - standing, sitting, handstand...

    I can appreciate a lot of older folks can't get laid out on the ground, and a lot of folks struggle with diaphragm strength/endurance when going prone, so bench shooting tends to be the most easily physically accessible precision position. It's easier also to eliminate the shooter as a variable when on the bench as well, especially when shooting free recoil on a rest and rear bag.
     
  18. Soupy44

    Soupy44 Member

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    Most natural and easiest are two separate things. Prone is the most stable of all the positions, due to the vast amount of body contacting the ground, making it easier to shoot accurately and consistently.

    Now assume a prone position while standing up. You'd have to cock your head back to look up vertically while lifting your arms up such that your elbows kept a bend in them and your hands slightly lower than in front of your upward looking face. Pretty sure we spend far more of our lives standing vertical holding things up with our hands than we do lying on our bellies holding our head up and something else in our hands.

    I also come from a different shooting background than most. I have done very little action shooting, and a lot of Olympic style smallbore and air rifle. We shoot a different standing position than most, and do our competitions in a much more controlled environment (know distance, generous time limit, often indoors or shielded from wind, known range format and layout). That's why I had the comment of your game's position requirements may vary.
     
  19. rskent

    rskent Member

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    Getting laid out is the easy part. It’s the getting up that takes a minute or two.
    Just bring your right knee up a bit and get your diaphragm off the ground.
     
  20. Bwana John

    Bwana John Member

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    [QUOTE="Soupy44, post: 10616745, member: 84912"

    I also come from a different shooting background than most. I do our competitions in a much more controlled environment (know distance, generous time limit, often indoors or shielded from wind, known range format and layout). That's why I had the comment of your game's position requirements may vary.[/QUOTE]

    My path has been very similar, NRA Jr. smallbore 3 position starting at 12 years old, NM high power Service rifle starting at 16 years old, biathalon at 25, progressing to Palma and F class, and lately prone smallbore at 60.

    Prone is my favorite, I am not looking forward to the day that I can't get back up off the ground after assuming it!
     
  21. Laphroaig

    Laphroaig Member

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    Me too. Sitting used to be my best position, but 1 knee replacement and about 20 years of age later getting into and out of position is a challenge, especially CMP matches where you have to start standing.

    That sure hasn't been my experience. My setup is NRA/CMP AR15 Service Rifle, Aeroprecision cantilever mount, with a Leupold Mark AR 1 - 4x. I started with the optics late last year, and no matter how the scope is mounted the eye relief just isn't correct for all positions. Too far forward for standing, a little better for sitting, and too far back for prone. I get by, but have to shoot 2x standing and prone is a little uncomfortable but manageable.

    I did research eye relief when I bought the Leupold and didn't think that there was much difference. I might have to revisit that, with 4.5x max scopes with target type turrets.

    This is kind of related, but I've noticed some competitors shoot with a scope cover on the ocular with a 1/4" hole drilled in it. Does anybody know why?
     
  22. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Because there aren't many side focus scopes available in less than 4.5x, so we're stuck using the wrong parallax setting at 2 or all ranges. A lot of guys have their fixed parallax scopes re-focused to 200-300yrds, but then you're still fighting it at 600yrds.

    By adding a ported cover to the eyebox, it forces the shooter to find the right eye position, to minimize the potential for parallax error. A guy needs to mess with their particular scope, to ensure the hole size matches up with the exit pupil - and then of course, leave your scope zoomed to that setting all of the time.
     
  23. Laphroaig

    Laphroaig Member

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    Ya I figured that was the most likely reason. Several people that I know have sent theirs in to have the parallax adjusted. I considered it until I read the owners manual. (The following I found online for a VX scope, but my Mark AR Manual says about the same thing.)

    "Maximum parallax occurs when your eye is at the very edge of the exit pupil. (Even in this unlikely event, our 4x hunting scope focused for 150 yards has a maximum error of only 8/10ths of an inch at 500 yards.)"
     
  24. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    When slung-prone, yes. Not appropriate when prone on a pod.
     
  25. rskent

    rskent Member

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    My bad, when think prone I think sling.
     

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