Proper beginner's rifle?

[Panabas]

I will be purchasing my first rifle soon. I am looking to learn the basics and develop the foundation to becoming a good marksman.

After lurking the forums, I think I know what I’m looking for: a Savage Mark II, but I am torn between 2 models - the Mark II-F and the Mark II-FVT - and have several questions.

I like the peep sights on the FVT, but it is significantly more expensive than the F. Is the heavy barrel worth it? (I can afford either, but I could buy a whole lot more ammo and range time if the F will suffice.)

Could I just have a smith install peep sights on the F? If so, can someone recommend a set?

I would like to learn how to shoot with a proper shooting sling. Any recommendations?

Does anyone know a place in Northern Virginia where I could get lessons and practice? (I plan to do an Appleseed eventually.)

Lastly, is there anything else I need to know/consider?

Thanks!

 

[benzy2]

I have the FVT and love that rifle. It shoots really really good. The sights are quality and everything works great. For the price difference you won't be able to get a gunsmith to buy and install the same style sights on an F and be any less expensive. You only buy once so buy what you like. Not much fun to shoot a rifle you wish you wouldn't have bought. I do think the F will be good as well though. The sights aren't in the same class but the price can't be beat. I'm not sure how much a heavy barrel does in .22lr, or at least on anything this side of a 100% match rifle. I think the quality of the barrel means far more than the weight. The weight may make the rifle balance better but in pure accuracy in a .22lr built to these standards it isn't going to make much difference. Hold a few and buy what feels best and seems like the most fun.

 

[woof]

Don't make the mistake of trying to substitute equipment for practice. You don't need a heavy barrel and you don't need peep sights. Get the F and put a few thousand rounds through it then see where you are and where you want to go from there.

 

[AirForceShooter]

.22 Bolt.
Any reputable maunfacturer

AFS

 

[Bearhands]

+1 to the previous posts.. I too am lusting after an FVT. I have several 22 bolt actions, they're all fun. Even a decent used one is not a bad idea. That way, the investment is low and it can lead you to exactly what you'd like down the road a bit.

 

[heron]

I have an FVT, and I love it. Globe sights are delightful.

One thing you may want to consider: the globe sights will not teach you to shoot with irons, so if you want to eventually get a rifle with iron sights, that may be a consideration.

 

[H2O MAN]

Proper beginner's rifle?

Mine was a USGI M1 Garand

 

[gvnwst]

I have the F model, and while what the others said about not needing peep sights is true, after you get good enough...the lacking (read, pitiful) sights on the F become a LARGE limiting factor IMO. Now, the point of good enough was making any pop can within 110yd scared for its life. Then i just upgraded to a scope.

 

[woof]

Yeah, I didn't the mean the Savage F was something to be satisfied with long term, just a good place to start and by the time it is outgrown, the OP will know a lot more about his preferences and be able to decide better on a next step from there. Everyone should, in my opinion, start by learning to shoot well with good old irons. I have a pre accutrigger Mark II F that I put a cheap 4x scope on and for under $150 total I swear the thing shoots as well as my CZ 452/Leupold.

 

[Water-Man]

CZ 513 Basic .22LR

 

[Smokey Joe]

Beginner's rifle...

Panabas--Firstly, good on you wanting to get good with yr rifle. That'll just take practice, practice, practice.

I would like to learn how to shoot with a proper shooting sling. Any recommendations? Does anyone know a place in Northern Virginia where I could get lessons and practice? (I plan to do an Appleseed eventually.)

The Appleseed will give you the best lessons you can get. The price is great. You spend an entire weekend being instructed and encouraged. The sling is required for the Appleseed; they'll teach you to rely on it. IMX, you can't do better for "newbie" rifle instruction--get ye to that Appleseed!

Now, if you're interested in formal target-shooting competition, you'll have to find a local club that does that. But your Appleseed experience will be a good base on which to build, even so. And for target shooting, even more than for informal plinking, the key to sucess is practice, practice, practice.

 

[bkb0000]

first rifle? AR15! my wife and i are taking our new custom built SPRs to the next local appleseed

 

[gvnwst]

I have a pre accutrigger Mark II F that I put a cheap 4x scope on and for under $150 total I swear the thing shoots as well as my CZ 452/Leupold.

Well, i just got a better scope for mine (now 14x top end) but i have the same experiance as you. Minute of flower stem with the right ammo.

 

[Art Eatman]

I guess I'm sort of a "one step at a time" guy. Just starting out, IMO most any halfway-decent (even "good used") bolt-action rifle would do. Put in several hundred rounds of practice with it, working on sight picture and coordinating that with your trigger finger.

At the same time, given the opportunity, make the rounds of gunshops, feeling and fondling various other .22 rifles. Read the specs. Talk to people. Then do a trade-in and upgrade.

Two learning curves at once: Skill with the rifle, and knowledge about what's available.

Always remember: Money goes out a lot faster than it comes in.

 

[Panabas]

For the price difference you won't be able to get a gunsmith to buy and install the same style sights on an F and be any less expensive... I think the quality of the barrel means far more than the weight. The weight may make the rifle balance better but in pure accuracy in a .22lr built to these standards it isn't going to make much difference.

From my understanding, the heavy barrel's advantage comes from better heat dissipation and rigidity, which makes for a more consistent shot. I assumed that's where the main cost difference came from. But if the end price is going to be similar (and save me a lot of hassle), I might as well go for the FVT.

The sling is required for the Appleseed; they'll teach you to rely on it.

What makes a sling "good"?

 

[bkb0000]

appleseed says simplicity makes a good sling. they recommend old garand leather or current mil black nylon web 2-point.

that's from a citizen marksmanship position, though.. some of us a little more tactical-minded say Blue Force makes a sling "good."

 

[Wheeler44]

What makes a sling "good"?

Knowing how to use it.

The G.I. web slings are a good shooting aid. So are the 1907 pattern leather slings....You know ..two part,adjustable sling with two rows of holes punched into it with little brass hooks and leather loop "keepers"....
Both are used for supporting the rifle in the shooting positions..

Come to an Appleseed and see how to use 'em

 

[alexanderplatz]

I vote for a bolt action .22, because even after you've acquired other, larger-caliber rifles you'll continue to enjoy shooting the .22 a lot.

I've been very happy with CZ bolt-action .22's. The "452 Lux" model has great iron sights with a sliding rear sight like a Mauser.

 

[jbkebert]

This is a older Savage MarkII BV. I have never been happier with a .22 rifle even with a $50.00 tasco on it. If you are considering a scoped model. You will not be diapointed.

 

[benzy2]

From my understanding, the heavy barrel's advantage comes from better heat dissipation and rigidity, which makes for a more consistent shot. I assumed that's where the main cost difference came from. But if the end price is going to be similar (and save me a lot of hassle), I might as well go for the FVT.

Heat is one side of it. The other is the barrel vibrates less with a heavier barrel. When you look at .22lr though unless you are really blasting a bolt rifle shouldn't get too hot. The vibration side is another I'm not so sure I believe to have any bearing on a non-match rifle. I'm sure a lot of these things come into play in a rifle that is using top end components, shooting top end ammo, looking for every thousandth of an inch. Using average ammo I haven't found a heavy barrel to be that much of a difference. The quality of the barrel has been far more important. When I look at my CZs the pencil barrels shoot just as good as the varmint contour. I thought heavy barrels were cheaper to make. A lot of makers start with the same blanks and turn the sporter weight barrels down farther as well as giving them a taper. A lot of heavy barrels are just a straight tube which takes a lot less machine work to be made. I would say the reason the price is more is that people think the heavy barrels are more accurate and so they can charge more.

 

[Ed Ames]

My $8.75:

1. There is only one good reason for not spending a little more up front to get what you want - if you would enjoy the process of experimenting and customizing. Other than that, just get as close as you can up front.

2. Peep sights are not a need/don't need item for most people. They are a preference (I have, either factory or retrofit, peeps on all my non-collector rifles because I like them) or an affectation except in limited circumstances. That said, I really like them and there is a reason pretty much all us military weapons use them.

3.. What makes a sling good is lack of give, stretch, and slip. Most shops don't sell slings (carry straps are not slings) and most rifles can't accept many of the the "good" slings everyone recommends. Most sling loops are 1", most good slings are 1-1/4"...but don't let that stop you. Once you have a sling it's far from obvious how to rig it, what sort of tension to apply, and so on...but once you figure all that out your shooting instantly moves up a level.

Overall good choice IMO.

 

[22-rimfire]

If I were young and never shot much, I'd go with the Mark II-F and learn to shoot from there. The heavy barrel does not make that much difference with a 22.

I have a Mark II Classic. But it does not have iron sights.

 

[hadmanysons]

.22 Bolt.
Any reputable manufacturer

A good, quality .22, manufacturer a good place to start with basic gun marksmanship. From there you can move on to handguns and high-cal rifles and shotgun. Not trying to gloat but my old man(a Navy SEAL) taught me to shoot like that, and I'm naturally a fair fair shot.

 

[Brian Dale]

To me, "a proper shooting sling" means either of two: the 1907 leather sling (or its Turner biothane variant) and the GI cotton (not nylon) web sling.

I like the leather sling, though I haven't yet bought a top-quality one (Les Tam or Turner). I'm currently using a cotton web sling on my target AR, and there are apparently some High Masters who use them at Camp Perry each year.

I'd grab a GI cotton web sling or two first, because they'll throw them at you for a few bucks. They work. Then decide whether you want to spring for a good 1907 sling. The cotton web sling is no slouch as a spare, if you go the 1907 route.

For field shooting and hunting, there's always Eric Ching's bit of genius, too. I have a Safari Ching Sling on my custom Mauser.