Providence RI Detective Murdered with His Own Weapon

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Jeff White

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What can we learn from this tragedy? Most members here will never be in the situation that Det. Allen was in. But everyone who carries a firearm interacts with other people every day while armed. Every encouter you have with someone is an armed encounter if you have your weapon.

Since this is the Strategies and Tactics forum, I would like to limit discussion to the facts as reported and what lessons we all can draw from this incident.

Jeff
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DETECTIVE_KILLED?SITE=MOSTP&SECTION=US

Apr 17, 3:57 PM EDT

Providence detective killed with own gun

By ELIZABETH ZUCKERMAN
Associated Press Writer


PROVIDENCE, R.I. (AP) -- A Providence detective was killed with his own gun at police headquarters Sunday by a suspect who was not handcuffed and managed to get hold of the weapon, the police chief said.

The killing of James Allen, a 27-year veteran, comes after a series of attacks that have raised concerns about the security of those who work in the criminal justice system.

Allen, 50, was shot in the detective conference room while questioning Estenban Carpio about the stabbing of an 84-year-old woman who survived the attack, Chief Dean Esserman said. Carpio was not under arrest and had been taken out of handcuffs, he said.

Carpio, 26, allegedly grabbed the officer's gun, shot him, broke a third floor window in an adjacent office and jumped onto a service road, Esserman said at a news conference. He was captured after a struggle a few blocks away. No charges were filed against him.
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The chief would not say how Carpio managed to get Allen's weapon, and would not discuss other details leading up to the shooting, including whether there were witnesses.

"The investigation has begun and we will find answers, but not here this morning," he said.

Esserman also would not discuss the protocols for carrying weapons inside police headquarters or for interviewing potential suspects.

Allen, who was married and had two daughters, was pronounced dead at a hospital shortly after the shooting.

Deputy Police Chief Paul Kennedy said Allen was an experienced investigator, one of the department's longest-serving detectives. His father is a retired police captain.

"Jimmy Allen passed in the noblest way possible. He gave his life trying to make our lives safer," said Mayor David Cicilline. "He died a hero."

Security in government buildings has been a greater concern since March, when a man in the middle of a rape retrial in Atlanta allegedly overpowered a court deputy and took her gun, then killed the judge presiding over his case, a court reporter, a deputy outside the courthouse and a federal customs agent.

Just weeks before, the husband and mother of a Chicago federal judge were slain in her home.

Visitors to the Providence police building must pass through a metal detector since last fall, when a man walked into the lobby with a loaded gun and told an officer he might hurt himself or someone else. Officers disarmed him and no one was hurt.

Michael Brady, an expert in police procedures who teaches at Salve Regina University in Newport, said every police station has areas called "weapons secure," where guns are banned. These generally include cell blocks and interrogation rooms, he said, but not areas such as detective conference rooms.

But if Allen wanted to question Carpio, Brady said, it would not have been unusual for him to do so in a nonsecure area with his gun in his holster.

"This officer was not doing something very different than what police officers throughout the nation do every single day," he said.

Brady said while all uniformed police officers use specialized security holsters to make it difficult for a suspect to remove the gun, most plainclothes officers use simpler holsters designed to conceal, rather than secure the gun.

Police said Carpio was injured in his jump from the window, and was treated at a hospital for injuries to his leg, arm and head.

Esserman's voice wavered as he briefed reporters.

"It is little consolation that a suspect has been apprehended," Esserman said. "We've lost a remarkable man today, and this city is the worse for it."

The last time a Providence police officer was killed was in January 2000, when Sgt. Cornel Young Jr., off duty and in civilian clothes, was killed by fellow officers who mistook him for a suspect when he ran to their aid.
 
I am curious why there was no one else around. It would seem to be a good policy from an investigative as well as security stand point to have someone else there.
 
I'll second BearGulch's question. If an officer is questioning a suspect it would seem like it ought to be dept policy to mandate two officers so one can serve as witness in case of complaints about brutality and so forth. This is another good reason.
 
Going by what was in the article, or what was missing from the article, would have to say there were a lot of mistakes made.

First of all this guy was a suspect in a stabbing. Then the police say, in essence, well he was not under arrest so we took off the handcuffs. If that guy was brought in in handcuffs then there was a reason for such. He was probably technically under arrest at that point whether or not they took off the cuffs later. Better than taking them off altogether, would have been to have secured one cuff to one of his wrists and another to a secure cuff bar, or at least to a chair arm.

Even if he was not under arrest, he was a suspect in a stabbing and therefore he was potentially extremely dangerous and probably thinking he was going away for a long time so he was desperate too. If they wanted to interview him without cuffs then they should have had at least three officers in that room. Who knows maybe there were other officers in the room, I do not think the article made that clear. It would also have been a good idea for no guns to be in the room.

Was the officer wearing his vest while in close quarters with a suspect in a stabbing?

Weapons retention is a thing to consider, but I think we need more facts to discuss what went on there. I can tell you from a few experiences that weapons retention is a crucial subject to learn and to practice. Even then, you may not always win and you need a plan if the other guy gets your gun or even if it just seems almost certain he is about to get it. Take out the mag, toss it away. One shot in the gun is better than 16 if a bad guy takes it from you.

Lots of second guessing can be done, and right now without more facts I guess that is what it amounts to; yet I do see this as a good topic for discussion because it will make people think and plan.

What really surprises me about the whole thing is that the guy was not under arrest after being suspected of stabbing the elderly lady and, he was not charged with anything after being apprehended as the prime suspect in the shooting of the officer.
He was captured after a struggle a few blocks away. No charges were filed against him.
There is something terribly wrong with that picture because there were a lot of things with which to charge him. Very strange police department - I would say!

Best regards,
Glenn B
 
Perhaps one lesson to learn from this is just because you are in a place you regard as "safe" does not mean you can let your guard down with someone you do not know, much less trust.
 
Gun grabs happen quickly.

Don't get complacent. [Easier said than done.]

As long as you stay on the job, stay current on your personal training. [Again, easier said than done.]

Don't count on anyone else being present and able to help you...It's langiappe if they are there and available, but the only person certain to be there when you need them, is you.
 
t's langiappe if they are there and available, but the only person certain to be there when you need them, is you.

I never thought I would see the word "lagniappe" used anywhere outside my high school class. Thank you for keeping this important word alive and current!
 
The officer was a detective, so his holster *probably* was not a retention holster, and he *probably* was not wearing a vest. I agree that department protocols seem a bit strange. I can't understand the fact that (a) there was only one officer in the room with the suspect, and (b) the officer had his gun with him.

I think in evaluating this it is necessary to remember that it happened in Providence, RI. RI is not "gun friendly." The LEO attitude there is generally that only the LEOs should have guns. That and the fact that the officer was a 27-year veteran almost certainly (IMHO) led to a high degree of complacency. False logic: "It hasn't happened in 27 years, therefore it will not happen."

It happened.

I watched a news sound bite of some Providence official on the boob tube. He said something about the officer being an experienced veteran, and used his judgment, etc. It sounded like that department actually doesn't have any established protocol for interviewing suspects. Or, if they have a protocol, they aren't very strict about asking 27-year veterans to follow it.

An investigation is being carried out, so stay tuned.
 
The local news had footage of the suspect's arraignment. It seems the arresting officers beat the living snot out of him, so much so that he had to wear a Doctor Lecter-type mask to hold his face together.

The family of the suspect had to be dragged from the courtroom. Outside, one of the suspect's relatives was beside herself with rage, screaming "police brutality."

Maybe she'd like a nice close-up view of the body of the Detective, too?
 
Devonai there are people on this board that will think that this criminal had his constitutional rights violated when the Providence cops beat the crap out of him. Personally I think he had it coming, and it doesn't bother me one bit. :D
 
You guys are free to start a new thread in legal and political if you want to talk about constitutional rights and if the arrest of the suspect was within Provideence PD's use of force policy.

Let's keep on topic, which is the lessons that every armed citizen may draw from this tragedy.

Jeff
 
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