When Officers Reed and Malloy Pull us Over

[Jeff White]

Years ago my wife got a speeding ticket in the next county to the west trying to get home from the commissary before the kids got home from school. I got home about 1am after my shift and she was waiting up all upset. I told her not to worry about, call the states attorney in that county and ask for court supervision and be done with it….,..

Fast forward a couple months and we are all coming home and I’m driving. The same trooper pulls me over, recognizes me from a training class we were in together and tells me to get going and stay safe.

I heard about that every time we had a small disagreement for a couple years. I really regretted professional courtesy after that.

 

[Old Dog]

I really regretted professional courtesy after that.

That's a thing that's kind of vanishing these days. Since the advent of dashcams, bodycams, MDTs and calling in before initiating a vehicle stop, everything is reviewed and dissected at the Monday morning meetings. I have an acquaintance who got jammed up for letting the COP from a small adjacent town skate on a deuce. I think he works at Home Depot now.

 

[JohnKSa]

LEO officer had his passport.

He handed the cop the passport. The cop asked something like: "So you're <name on passport>?" to which the kid foolishly replied: "That is not me."

What he meant was: "I'm not a name printed on a piece of paper." which is one small part of the absolute nonsense the sovereign citizens spout--in this particular case thinking that these words somehow magically protect them from legal action.

The officer, however, understandably took it to mean that the passport was false--which is why he responded along the lines of: "So this is a false passport?"

At that point, after refusing to give license or registration, having false license plates, handing the cop a passport but claiming he's not the person in the passport, the guy was definitely going to take the ride but apparently he decided he was willing to die to make a point.

The kid was a pitiful moron without even the basic common sense to fear death; the person(s) really at fault are whoever filled such a sadly gullible idiot's head with loads of absolutely inane garbage. The officer was just caught in the middle

 

[The Night Rider]

Pardon me for asking this question and I'm asking it with no intent to disrupt but how is dealing with a Sovereign Citizen applicable to the strategies and tactics forum?

I'm not a police officer (however I did get called a God damn rent a cop quite often), I have no Duty or reason to engage with a Sovereign Citizen. As far as I know, I never had one attempt to gain access to any facility that I was providing security for. And I'm fairly certain that most of us here know not to give the cop a ration if we get pulled over

 

[Kleanbore]

Has to do with not getting arrested or shot.

 

[wayneinFL]

Pardon me for asking this question and I'm asking it with no intent to disrupt but how is dealing with a Sovereign Citizen applicable to the strategies and tactics forum?

I'm not a police officer (however I did get called a God damn rent a cop quite often), I have no Duty or reason to engage with a Sovereign Citizen. As far as I know, I never had one attempt to gain access to any facility that I was providing security for. And I'm fairly certain that most of us here know not to give the cop a ration if we get pulled over

I think the message in the OP about how to handle a traffic stop is valid.

The example of a sovereign citizen pulling a gun on a cop is kind of an extreme example to back it up. We're parsing mannerisms, attitude when to open windows, etc. I would hope everyone knows not to put your hand on the gun.

 

[GEM]

Yep, I've been in accidents and stops (not my fault) and being polite, following instructions caused me no problems despite a Glock and a couple of extra mags on my person.

If an officer gives you a problem - get a lawyer, handle it later.

 

[The Night Rider]

I think this one's pretty common and pretty common sense. Bearing in mind that I haven't been pulled over for close to 15 years, I would never inform the police that I was armed unless they specifically asked me or I had some reason to think that it would be beneficial to me.

 

[CDW4ME]

Insurance card & registration are on top in glove box, I'll have those in hand with my drivers license (if stopped) when the officer walks up.

 

[JeffG]

My wife and I encountered a paradigm shift in regards to law enforcement, yesterday. My wife coming home on the four lane encountered an accident scene. There was the the usual fire truck, tow truck, cones and squad cars with their lights on, and nobody on their feet directing traffic. She saw a traffic wide gap in the cones, and assumed it was only a lane closure, and moved to the left and proceeded slowly around the fire truck. A squad came up behind her at high speed with his lights on. She pulled over. The officer pulled along side on her left, never got out of the squad and rolled down the window.
He proceeded to scream, "What the f*ck are you doing?!!" and repeat this three or four times, screaming F-Bombs and pounding on his steering wheel, threatening to send her a citation in the F-cking mail. He directed her to pull over, and await the scene to be cleared, which she did. My wife is a pretty tough cookie, but she was pretty shocked. He backed up and took his former position. Now, I retired in law enforcement after more than 30 years. If I had done something like that on the job to a member of the public, I would be worried that it might be career ending.
I wanted to call the Shift Commander to give the officer an on the spot correction, but he had threatened my wife with a citation in the mail, and she didn't want me to call.

So, I put this in my experience file, and wonder....what the heck?? I hope this isn't the face of law enforcement . My point is, if this officer loses his cool on traffic situations, how is he when he needs to make decisions on lethal force??

 

[Stevel]

While the kids brain was not fully developed, the cops escalated the situation to a confrontation. They had his passport, could've run the vin and issued a citation and slipped it in the window and gotten on with their day.

While I don't subscribe to the SC movement, the cop should've known if he was entering the guys car without permission-for an unvalid registration.... he was going to get a confrontation. The kid was showing no agression. The cop didn't even ask the kid if he had a weapon in the car. There was no need to get him out of the car.

They had him blocked in. They could've sent the junior guy to Dunkin' for a dozen and coffee and sat it out. But no, they were going to show who was boss, escalated the situation and killed a guy for not registering his car.

 

[Kleanbore]

They had his passport,

They could not know that it was his. He implied that it was not.

issued a citation and slipped it in the window and gotten on with their day.

Wouldn't mean anything. Need a signature. And he needs to provide it or go with them in the back seat.

There was no need to get him out of the car.

Once he had broken the law by refusing to provide the necessary papers. he was required to get out to be arrested.

escalated the situation and killed a guy for not registering his car.

Nope. They shot him in self defense when he drew his gun.

Where do you get these ideas?

 

[jdc1244]

if we are asked to get out of the car and we are carrying a concealed firearm, we want to eliminate any risk that any movement of our shirt-tail or jacket that briefly exposes the gun

Yet another of the seemingly endless advantages of carrying a j-frame revolver in the front pocket.

 

[Old Dog]

I wanted to call the Shift Commander to give the officer an on the spot correction, but he had threatened my wife with a citation in the mail, and she didn't want me to call.

That would be one instance where I would totally go against my wife's wishes. That behavior is totally unacceptable. One major department up here has "community liaison officers" in each sector, as well as their phone numbers listed on the department website and a way to file a complaint online about any department employee.

I have had occasional to call or e-mail departments to ask that a particular officer be recognized for doing something above and beyond or simply just truly professional, but have no qualms complaining. An example, when one of my children was involved in a serious auto accident, the responding patrol officers were just outstanding and I had to let their bosses know. Recently I saw a young patrol officer deal with an elderly woman whose car was the victim of a hit-and-run in a shopping center parking lot; the officer was incredibly patient, compassionate and respectful, I was touched, so had to reach out to the department to offer kudos.

So my point is, the more involved the community is with its law enforcement agencies and officers, the more communication to the departments from citizens, the good and the bad, just maybe the bad actors will get held accountable, retrained or cut loose if necessary. But it's important to call attention to the ones who do the job the right way. I've seen the system work.

I hope this isn't the face of law enforcement . My point is, if this officer loses his cool on traffic situations, how is he when he needs to make decisions on lethal force??

I'm afraid these guys do become the face of law enforcement, because they're the ones that get out of control and become the next Minneapolis, Atlanta or Louisville debacle. We don't see the 99% of the professionals who quietly go about their business and treat citizens with respect and courtesy because they don't make the evening news.

Yet another of the seemingly endless advantages of carrying a j-frame revolver in the front pocket.

Wrong thread

 

[wayneinFL]

He proceeded to scream, "What the f*ck are you doing?!!" and repeat this three or four times, screaming F-Bombs and pounding on his steering wheel, threatening to send her a citation in the F-cking mail. He directed her to pull over, and await the scene to be cleared, which she did. My wife is a pretty tough cookie, but she was pretty shocked. He backed up and took his former position. Now, I retired in law enforcement after more than 30 years. If I had done something like that on the job to a member of the public, I would be worried that it might be career ending.

So the guy was having a bad day...

You've never had the frothing at the mouth, veins popping out of his neck officer lose it on you? I guess they just don't do that to other cops.

My last one was I passed an out of uniform motorcycle cop on his way to work. I passed him at about 92 and he pulled me over saying he was doing 88 and I passed him. He was 2 counties away from his jurisdiction and wanted to give me a traffic ticket's worth of chewing out before he sent me on my way. Because 18 over is the correct amount of speed a normal person should be doing over the speed limit, but 22 over is just insane.

I'm not saying every cop is like that, even that cop is probably not normally like that, but I just figured every driver ran across those kinds of cops every 200K miles or so.

 

[lightman]

I'm going to say that Mr Allen died from a serious case of the Dum Dumbs! And thats being nice!

When I get stopped I try to act like a solid citizen and not a thug. As soon as I see the blue lights I signal and pull over as soon as I think its safe and far enough over to keep the Cop out of the traffic. I'll lower all of the windows and sit there with my hands visible. Usually with one on the top of the wheel and the other on the door. And turn the engine off. I'll greet them politely, something like Hello Officer, or good morning Officer. I don't dig out any papers until he ask. I'll let him know my wallet is in my back pocket and that I'll have to twist around to reach for it. When I hand them my license I also hand them my concealed carry license and inform them if I'm carrying or not. When they ask for registration and insurance I inform them where its at and that I'll have to reach for it. I'll answer any questions simply and politely. This is from several friends that are officers.

For several years I would help a farmer buddy at harvest time. Basically I would go by his grain bins before noon, get in a tractor truck and drive it 30 miles to the farm. Park it in line on a turnrow and drive a loaded one back to town. In a days time I would drive 5 or maybe 6 different trucks. One year on the first day I got stopped by the Highway Patrol and informed that a farm truck was required to have the farm name on the truck and sent me on the way. The same officer stopped me evertime I came through in a different truck. By the third time he started to recognize me and would just walk up the truck and point at the door and I would nod yes. There were not identical trucks. The next day before we started work my buddy Wife had decals made and we put them on the doors. The same officer stopped me again on my first trip through town and he was mad when he walked up to the truck, pounding on the door and shouting "are you mocking me, are you trying to be funny"? I'm like what do you mean and leaned out to see what he was pointing at. Then it hit me, the sticker read *** Farms, my buddies initials and the real name of his farm. I had to show him the registration to get him to believe me!

Sorry for the lengthy reply, didn't mean to write a book!

 

[crstrode]

What I think is really funny about the title of this discussion is that when Reed & Mallory stopped people the driver almost routinely got out of the car and came and talked to the cops and Reed & Malloy didn't say anything about it.

Reed and Malloy were not cops. Their actions were in the script. They did not need to think.

 

[crstrode]

Had a friend who got pulled over in a small Eastern WA town and asked the cop, "Which one are you, Andy or Barney?"

That "friend" of yours is cause for the disdain in these parts for wet-side folks.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

Andrew Branca did a podcast episode about this shooting just because of his audience's interest, and he made the aside comment that it was a tragedy for the family, but they could have raised a more prudent son. Local news says mom is the same way and got in a confrontation with the cops over the same sovereign citizen rigmarole, but I believe they were able to identify her and just mailed her a citation.

 

[The Night Rider]

Reed and Malloy were not cops. Their actions were in the script. They did not need to think.

Thanks for clarifying that for me. I appreciate your Insight

 

[JohnKSa]

...I would hope everyone knows not to put your hand on the gun.

And yet we had an officer recount an experience on this thread where a person, during a traffic stop, took a gun out of the glove box without thinking about it.

I think it's good for people to think about this kind of stuff ahead of time. It's not complicated, but some of it is pretty important.

I recommend people NOT carry their gun in the same location where they have their registration/insurance to avoid having to mess with the gun or reach towards it during a traffic stop. You don't want the gun to even make a visible appearance unless the officer decides it is relevant.

I recommend NOT saying things like: "I have a gun." or "My gun is on me." or anything along those lines. If you have to inform, the best way is to provide your carry permit with your license. If you don't have one and need to inform, then say something like: "I have my CCW with me." or "I'm carrying.", something that sounds routine and gets the point across without saying the word 'gun'. Watch some shooting videos and see what happens in a situation where an officer starts saying: "Gun." or "He has a gun." There are negative associations that are nice to avoid.

I recommend people not try to get everything ready for the cop before he approaches. Because he will see you getting something ready for him without knowing for sure whether it's an ambush or just your license and registration.

I recommend not creating needless strife during the stop, not because a cop is going to shoot you if you argue with him, but because it's pointless and escalates a situation that involves at least one armed person, probably, on this forum, two. In a disaster, it virtually always takes more than one contributing circumstance to cause a real catastrophe, the more circumstances you control, the less chance of things getting out of hand.

I recommend always being polite because, for one thing, you should really always be polite. The vast majority of cops are doing their job and are decent folks and don't deserve anything other than being treated politely. The very few that are a problem should be treated politely so you don't get them spun up.

I recommend people make themselves as visible as possible to the cop so they can easily see that you are sitting there doing nothing and waiting for instructions. Roll down windows if the tint is dark and you have power windows (if you have manual windows, wait for the officer to approach). Turn on the domelight if it's dark outside.

I recommend that people turn the engine off, or at least put the car in park so the officer doesn't have to worry if you're going to hit the gas and take off.

I recommend pulling over in a spot that doesn't endanger you or the officer during the stop and that makes things go as smoothly as possible. If you there's no good place to stop immediately, then slow down a bit and put on your turn signal to let him know you're looking for a place to stop rather than just driving on at speed and leaving him wondering what's going on.

I recommend not getting out of the car unless ordered to, both for your safety and to let the officer handle the traffic stop at his own pace.

I recommend telling the officer what you're doing before you do it--even if you are following instructions. There's a video of a person getting shot for abruptly reaching into his car for his license after being told to get his license by the officer. The officer didn't realize that the guy didn't have his license on him and assumed (incorrectly) that the guy was going for a weapon when he abruptly turned and leaned into his car. The officer was absolutely dead wrong to shoot him, and it wasn't really the guy's fault that he got shot, but the fact remains that if he had told the officer that his license was in the car and asked if he could get it before just abruptly reaching into the car, the odds are extremely good that he would have remained UNshot. An outcome that both the officer and the man really wished for after the fact since the guy was badly injured and the officer was fired, charged, convicted and sent to prison for 5 years.

 

[Blue Jays]

Twenty or so years ago I was pulled over about registration decals on my license plate.
The officer hit the lights as I approached a parking lot with a single entrance and exit.

In addition to adhering to @JohnKSa 's suggestions I pulled into a parking spot facing a 10-foot retaining wall.
The officer could very clearly see I had zero interest in seeking to drive away from just a simple traffic stop.

I showed my receipt for registration payment and that I was just awaiting fresh decals to arrive.
We were friendly with each other and wished each other a pleasant night. No tickets and no fines.

 

[The Night Rider]

I said it before but it's been almost 15 years since I've been pulled over.

That world doesn't exist anymore.

I already said my driver's license is in my hand as soon as I take my keys out of the ignition. My registration and proof of insurance are on the back of my visor I drop it and take them out.

I'm going to assume that when the cop sees me reach for the visor he knows what I'm doing especially when he sees the documents in my hand. The documents are in my left hand at the window when the cop walks up to the car my right hand is on the steering wheel.

I personally would never proactively inform the police that I'm armed, because it adds one more problem to deal with to the stop.

I'm also concerned that if I start talking and the cop is not really focusing on what I'm saying he's going to pick up one word "gun" and that's going to cause problems that don't need to be caused.

So, I would wait until the cop asks me "Do you have any weapons in the vehicle?" and I would simply answer "Yes" and let it go from there.

Do you have any weapons in the vehicle? Yes.

Where are they?
This is what I have. This is where it's at.

 

[shafter]

I've seen people reach into the back seat to retrieve whatever bag they keep their documents in with an AR15 laying on the back seat next to it. I don't believe he had any intentions of shooting me but some people truly are dumb.

 

[crstrode]

Thanks for clarifying that for me. I appreciate your Insight

You are welcome.

I heard this bit of info while listening to channel KMA 367.

Turns out Reed and Malloy both retired. Reed is now 80 years old, an anti-gun liberal, and past Director and vice president of the Screen Actors Guild.

Malloy has been dead for over 7 years - imagine that.