PTR blues....

[Slamfire]

Their explanation is absurd, as pointed out.

I will disagree, if the ammunition in question has tar sealant around the bullet. This design, and all fluted chamber designs, require gas flow through the flutes for function. It is a mistake to believe that you want the case to stick to the chamber walls. It would be better if the case was frictionless. All the case should do is provide a gas seal; when cases stick in the chamber, it takes effort to pull them out. Sometimes too much effort. The flutes in the roller bolt designs float the upper 2/3 rds of the case off the chamber walls, the bottom third of the case provides the gas seal. If those flutes are clogged, you will have excessive breech friction and the gun will have failures to extract. Tar sealant will vaporize during powder combustion, and condense in the chamber, clogging the flutes.

If you search in the achieves, the first PTR rifles had deep HK fluting. But reloaders complained so much, they changed to a shallower fluting.

This is absurd. Do the German, Norwegian, Danish, Greek and Lithuanian armies only use Remington, Federal Eagle or Winchester ammunition in their rifles?

No one should ever think that first world Armies go to Tropical Jack's Surplus to buy ammo. They understand the operating characteristics of their weapons, at least better than an outsider, and they buy appropriate ammunition for their weapons. Most first world countries make their own ammunition for their own troops. I don’t know how the HK91 performed with LC ammo, but I suspect that LC was checked for interchangeability. I really doubt that German troops were ever issued anything but German ammo.


This is an interesting read. http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2007smallarms/5_9_07/Geddes_1120am.pdf

 

[lipadj46]

The OP was using German surplus ammo read the original post. And again does not all 7.62 Nato ammo have tar sealant as part of the Nato specs or is there other kinds of sealant?

 

[stubbicatt]

clean the flutes

The explanation is not absurd, but quite logical. Whether the rifle should have this foible, is another issue.

If your arteries are blocked by plaque buildup caused by a lifetime of eating lard, and you subsequently change your diet to nothing but green vegetables, you still have to remove the accumulation of plaque before you see an improvement in circulation.

Clean the flutes and see if you notice any changes.

The fluting in the PTR series is 10 flutes vs. 12 in the HK, and the flutes are not cut as deeply. This ameliorates the recoil impulse somewhat, from what I understand. It may also contribute to this choking on tar issue. I don't know.

Just clean the flutes and see if you notice any differences. If it is due to tar sealants, you at least know the cause, and can take whatever corrective measures you deem appropriate.

Since I handload my ammo, this has not become an issue for me. The rifle cycles reliably and consistently. At the first, I too had issues with the clogged flutes due to tar sealant, so I understand your frustration. Perhaps this is not the best choice in rifles for your purposes.

I have an acquaintance who met me at the range the other day. He was concerned that he had a $7,000 rifle in his truck. Someone might steal it. He shot el cheapo surplus Portugese ball through it, and was disappointed in how it performed. I don't understand the mentality of those who buy a Ferrari and run 85 octane gas in it and complain that it doesn't perform.

You know what your PTR rifle likes, and you know what it doesn't like. If you insist on feeding it 85 octane fodder, don't complain when you get pinking and poor acceleration I guess... If you are unwilling to purchase the ammunition that performs well in your rifle, then you have a choice. Either sell the rifle and buy a different one, or accept the consequences of your choice.

Good luck in your decision.

 

[Average Joe]

I think they are just trying to save the cost of shipping. Just clean out the chamber as they suggest and try it again. I wouldn't buy Winchester ammo, these rifles are made for Nato ammo, and should not have a problem with any 7.62 Nato or commercial ammo. Very early PTR's had a problem with tight chambers, that would not extract commercial ammo, but that was corrected long ago. Mine will throw brass a mile, and shoot anything I run through it.

 

[kmregan45]

she is clean as a whistle now.....I am curious as to how others with PTRs "can feed it anything" with a cycling issue. Is there a break-in period? I don't care to feed her what was recommended in the email, but it would have been nice to know this upfront.....the rifle is advertised as being chambered for 7.62 NATO on both the website and in the owner's manual....also, the literature mentions nothing about restricting the type or brand of ammo becuase of tar sealant

As for selling the rifle, that is not in the cards.....I like and plan to shoot it a lot!

Thanks for all the help and advice

 

[lipadj46]

I wouldn't buy Winchester ammo, these rifles are made for Nato ammo,

The Winchester white box is Nato ammo it has the Nato cross right on it.

Man I have never heard people dog surplus 7.62 Nato ammo like in this thread. Most people with military style 7.62 Nato semi auto rifles that is why we buy them to shoot inexpensive surplus ammo and then reload the brass. I will come out and say I love surplus ammo (well not at today's prices). The tar sealant serves a good purpose. I have WCC 7.62 from 1963 that shoots like new, no duds because they are sealed up tight. I used to think I wanted a PTR-91 but if you are saying I can't shoot surplus, I have to buy match ammunition or reload if I am lucky enough to get a rifle to the point where it does not chew up brass, no thanks I will stick to my M1A. It eats anything and SAI does not care if I use good good quality surplus.

 

[Slamfire]

And again does not all 7.62 Nato ammo have tar sealant as part of the Nato specs or is there other kinds of sealant?

We would have to find if STANAG 2310 requires a tar sealant. I know my Austrialian ball ammo does not have tar. It shoots very well in my PTR 91. But I don't recall if the cases are stamped with the cross in the circle.

 

[lipadj46]

I'm looking around to find out, probably not newer stuff may have lacquer on the bullets to seal them but all of the 7.62 Nato stuff I have now has the tar sealant even the Lithuanian I believe that is supposed to be primo stuff has it. I never really gave it a thought I clean my rifle well after firing. I don't have (and don't think I want) a fluted chamber though sounds like it could be a pain. Do FALs have a fluted chamber also?

 

[Slamfire]

Do FALs have a fluted chamber also?

No, but FALS are rear locking mechanisms and stretch cases. Expect about five reloads out of a FAL before case head seperations.

And good FAL's are expensive. (Still, it is worth getting a good FAL, and a good M1a)

I don't know how many times you can reload a case out of a PTR91. I have only shot cases in that rifle a couple of times. The lifetime of a case fired in that rifle seems to be determined by when the case mouth is dented in.

 

[kmregan45]

PTR Update

Well, after finally getting back to the range after cleaning my PTR and getting some new ammo. I shot both Federal American Eagle and Winchester Super X .308 and both functioned flawlessly! I had nice tight groups with both. I will stay away from surplus ammo for PTR from now on!

 

[SteveW-II]

I am glad it worked out for you, but that will become an expensive gun to shoot. Maybe reloading and finding the right reload for the gun might bring your costs down.

FWIW I have 2 Portuguese G3 'kit guns' that I built on PTR receivers and they will work with any Mil Surp ammo I like to feed them. Portuguese (naturally), South African, MEN, DAG, Radway Green have all been (and sadly) gone. Its not an apples to apples comparison as I guess that my barrels will have the deeper HK fluting.

I also reload for them and find that 46 grains of BLC(2) under a Hornady 150 FMJBT in LC cases with a WLR primer duplicates South African mil surp velocity. 47 Grains matches Portuguese which is a little hotter.

Good Luck.

 

[IndianaBoy]

I am glad you finally had good results.

Have you considered handloading to get ammo costs down below the cost of milsurp?

I am shooting my AR for 170 per 1K rounds and loading with high quality components.

 

[MarcusWendt]

I've got to say this is disconcerting. I own a PTR an only have surplus ammo. I have yet to shoot this rifle. I see this as a utility rifle and I bought it based on it's reliability. If it can't feed most decent surplus ammo, it's not worth having in my opinion.

This is not a match grade rifle, it's a battle rifle. It's not like we're talking about Wolf ammo here.

I may reconsider this rifle. selling it new unfired would be better than used.

Please continue to test it and keep us updated.

 

[anthony-white]

Don't get discouraged. I have shot a few thousand rounds of surplus through mine (Portuguese, Australian, South African, and my favorite Hirtenberger). I have never had a failure from my rifle...and I'm not a cleaning Nazi.

 

[amd6547]

This is a funny thread to me on top of the recent thread about CETME's and the several suggestions not to waste money, buy a PTR instead.
My $350 CETME feeds, shoots, and ejects any NATO ammo I fill the mags with.

 

[lrrs1]

Well, I have to chime in on the my PTR feeds everything bandwagon. I must have a good one. For cheap shooting you might want to try the Wolf 308. My PTR LOVES it. It hucks those Wolf casings even further than regular brass ammo, is hovering around 1 MOA, and after about 500rds in one session no stoppages of any kind. The chamber was pretty dirty, but oh well, shoot cheap clean alot. I have the 16" carbine model.

 

[paratroop23]

I have the 16" inch model too, and it takes anything that I feed it. Mine is a JLD model. I believe that the newer models are under different management, but using the same tooling.

My rifle doesn't like the GGG-Lithuanian (accuracy) but still functions flawlessly with this particular ammo!