FROGO207
Member
Trouble with gas is the long lasting smell on your hands and the bullets. White gas (Coleman fuel) is better if you go that route.
Pull Down 7.62 NATO... A few questions
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BTW, don't recall if OP mentioned where he got his pull down brass........but noticed this today at Midway. In case anyone wants to travel down the same road.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1023560172?pid=218614
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1023560172?pid=218614
OP
OP
Saluki91
Member
Yep - That was it.
Keep an eye on American Reloading.... They had the 168gr SMK pull-downs back in stock the last time I looked. I believe they have occasionally had pull-down primed brass in stock as well.
Charlie98
Member
Wow... .60/cs for pull down brass. Last time I bought a case of LC 7.62mm... it was .52/rd loaded.
EDIT: The LC 18 pull down brass I bought in 2019 was .20/cs.
I’m assuming this LC pull down brass is not match, as such had crimped primers, at least mine is. Good luck removing them in a reusable condition. Maybe, wouldn’t hold my breath.
Charlie98
Member
It's not really that big of a deal... easy peasy with the right tool. The old LC crimp is a 360^ crimp and easy to swage or cut out. That danged 3- or 4-prong crimp is a pain, though.
Two completely different issues. Removing live crimped primers from unfired brass is far different than cutting or swaging primer pockets after removing primers.
bullseye308
Member
Last time I had to do a batch of 308 pulldown, I got some q-tips and a capful of nail polish remover and went to town on the case necks. Had them done in no time. The bullets I just dropped into a coffee can with some nail polish remover and swirled them around a while. Poured through a strainer and let dry in the sun for an hour then tumbled the bullets for 15 minutes in walnut with nufinish.
Charlie98
Member
AH! I see what you are getting at. I don't know that I've ever tried to pop live crimped primers... or why I would want to do so. They still come out after firing, I suspect it would be the same effort... but I'll have to take your word for it.
Thought about this for a while, and decided to try an order of this myself. 500 was more than I wanted, but since 308 is the only caliber I load for that will be shot in volume, and at distance where best accuracy matters, 308 is the only one I will be doing extensive load workups on. This effectively doubles my stash of primers, so the rest can be rationed as needed in other calibers until help arrives. Also figured it would help to fire form the brass to the gun it will be used in right out of the gate. Also matters that I have less than 100 rounds of 308 brass total.....all a headstamp mix of once fired factory brass.
Part that caught my eye in this thread was a post that suggested these may be fitted with what would be equal to magnum primers? Can anyone confirm that? Want to load them with 150 and 165 grain hunting bullets. Figure to start low and work up, looking for accuracy nodes.
Currently have some 4064 and looking for some 4166 and once an accuracy load is ID'd will stock up in volume when volume becomes available.
Part that caught my eye in this thread was a post that suggested these may be fitted with what would be equal to magnum primers? Can anyone confirm that? Want to load them with 150 and 165 grain hunting bullets. Figure to start low and work up, looking for accuracy nodes.
Currently have some 4064 and looking for some 4166 and once an accuracy load is ID'd will stock up in volume when volume becomes available.
merlynski
Member
In the past, rather than decap a live primer, I have put the empty case in the correctly chambered gun and fired the primer by itself. Problem solved, and the primer is now safe to remove, then uncrimp the pocket. Of course the primer is wasted . . . I have never bought primed pull-down brass though, so . . .
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Charlie98
Member
they are primed with CCI #34 Arsenal primers… equivalent to a Magnum primer.
OK, that being the case (magnum primer), it seems best course of action loading LC brass with a magnum primer is to back off on powder charges. Have seen as much as .5 grain reduction for primer and 1 grain for the LC brass case. This is from the starting minimums and work up from there?
Also found a reference to suggest these primers work best with fine grain powders......so have added H4895 to my short list of powders to load in this primed brass.
And still plan to load with 150 and 165 grain hunting bullets, which I already have.
Also found a reference to suggest these primers work best with fine grain powders......so have added H4895 to my short list of powders to load in this primed brass.
And still plan to load with 150 and 165 grain hunting bullets, which I already have.
Charlie98
Member
Magnum primers in military ammos are intended to consistently ignite ball powders at very cold temps... and in general use, many reloading manuals call for a Magnum primer using ball powders like H335 or BL-C(2), et al. Extruded powders generally don't require a Mag primer for consistent ignition. You are correct, however, if you have a load developed already, I would drop .5grn if I changed to a Magnum primer, or if I was at max book... probably 1grn. Further... if you are working off data using commercial cases, and switch to military .308/7.62mm brass, you would also reduce 1grn because of reduced case volume... but not both combined.
OK, brass arrived today. Free shipping BTW.
This lot appears to be all LC with 12, 13 and 14 date stamps. Some head stamps appear to have a few small dots. Most don't.
I don't see any issues with anything to wipe off....at least on the outside of the cases. So my plan is hit each case with a blast of compressed air to blow them out......to lube the cases.....which in my case also means using a Bonanza neck brush on the inside of the necks.....plus powdered graphite.......resize the cases. Bevel and chamfer the mouth and load.
Have not checked cases for length, but will. Will also weigh several to see if they are close or all over the place. Will probably sort by year before loading.
If anyone has other ideas.......I'd entertain suggestions.
This lot appears to be all LC with 12, 13 and 14 date stamps. Some head stamps appear to have a few small dots. Most don't.
I don't see any issues with anything to wipe off....at least on the outside of the cases. So my plan is hit each case with a blast of compressed air to blow them out......to lube the cases.....which in my case also means using a Bonanza neck brush on the inside of the necks.....plus powdered graphite.......resize the cases. Bevel and chamfer the mouth and load.
Have not checked cases for length, but will. Will also weigh several to see if they are close or all over the place. Will probably sort by year before loading.
If anyone has other ideas.......I'd entertain suggestions.
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Charlie98
Member
That is a LOT better looking than the LC 18 garbage I got 2 years ago.
Let us know how it works out!
Let us know how it works out!
Blue68f100
Member
Remove or back out the de-priming pin before you size. I would just use an expander to check tension on the necks on go on. Being new it should be fully sized. All your dealing with is damage from being banged around during shipping.
Charlie98
Member
No, this is pull-down brass... it was loaded ammunition that was disassembled.
Blue68f100
Member
I over looked that part. Neck sizing or FL sizing will be required like you stated. Those are crimped primers, so a little extra work after the first firing.
OK, have loaded a couple sets of rounds for ladder testing two bullets. But before doing that, thought it might be a good idea to load a few that were all the same, just to see what would happen.
Bottom line.....shot 10 rounds of what I thought were pretty tightly put together and results were a 2 inch group......with velocity variations running between 2650 and 2719......with most clustering in two groups......high set 2710 to 2719, and the other around 2670 and 2680. So I may have screwed something up. But I did not weigh each piece of brass to see if they differed or if there was a correlation. Powder charges were trickled up and thought to be as close as a balance beam scale can get them.
The group formed a circle.......so was not a vertical velocity spread. Because this was just a start load picked at random, size of group did not bother me as much as the velocity spread as that much spread makes the results of a ladder test pretty much worthless.
BTW, this was a start level load and velocity was right where it was supposed to be from load data. So the concern about the magnum primer or increased pressures and velocity from LC brass did not show up on this test.
But they all went bang and had that been a deer I was shooting at, it would have been in a world of hurt.
Bottom line.....shot 10 rounds of what I thought were pretty tightly put together and results were a 2 inch group......with velocity variations running between 2650 and 2719......with most clustering in two groups......high set 2710 to 2719, and the other around 2670 and 2680. So I may have screwed something up. But I did not weigh each piece of brass to see if they differed or if there was a correlation. Powder charges were trickled up and thought to be as close as a balance beam scale can get them.
The group formed a circle.......so was not a vertical velocity spread. Because this was just a start load picked at random, size of group did not bother me as much as the velocity spread as that much spread makes the results of a ladder test pretty much worthless.
BTW, this was a start level load and velocity was right where it was supposed to be from load data. So the concern about the magnum primer or increased pressures and velocity from LC brass did not show up on this test.
But they all went bang and had that been a deer I was shooting at, it would have been in a world of hurt.
Charlie98
Member
Definitely 2 sets of data... could be anything from bullet seating or powder charge, to case differences. Did they shoot in those 2 velocity groups, or was it random?
I'm gonna say random. Started out at the top, then dipped to lower level, then 7th round same as first....last shot was slowest of the bunch.
I also need to be realistic with what I have to work with. Lee breech lock press and Lee seating die. Resized the necks with a Hornady sizing die, with extractor taken out. And just remembered that somewhere towards the last 3 or 4 of those 10, I changed the depth of the sizing button a bit (deeper) which may have changed neck tension and thus pressure. So that is one variable that may account for some of it. That is about the same number of higher velocity rounds that showed up.
I also need to be realistic with what I have to work with. Lee breech lock press and Lee seating die. Resized the necks with a Hornady sizing die, with extractor taken out. And just remembered that somewhere towards the last 3 or 4 of those 10, I changed the depth of the sizing button a bit (deeper) which may have changed neck tension and thus pressure. So that is one variable that may account for some of it. That is about the same number of higher velocity rounds that showed up.
Charlie98
Member
Reading your last post... I immediately thought seating depth change or a .3grn adjustment of powder. Sounds like it might have been seating depth...
BTW, on setting up the Hornady sizing die, with extractor pin in, depth of the sizing button is easy to set. It is along for the ride. But to remove the exactor pin, you have to pull out the entire extractor assembly to remove it. But when putting it back without the extractor pin, you loose any idea of depth of your neck button. Probably should put pin back in, set depth, then mark the threads with a sharpie.
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