Pump for Casual Clays???

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I’ve been going out w/ a few guys on a semi regular basis to shoot some casual clays. At first, the only gun I could hit anything with was a friend’s Citori. Since everyone wants to shoot it, and it’s the easiest manual of arms, first timers spend a lot of time with it. So, I’ve been spending more time with the available pumps. Usually a Winchester and a Mossberg. Not sure of the exact models, but the only real difference is the safety location – and one round capacity.

When there are three people on the firing line and five people with hand throwers tossing as fast as they can, it’s a BLAST!!! Yesterday, I twice hit five as fast as I could run the gun - with a pump. We don’t keep score, and with everything going on, it’s impossible to verify, but I know what I hit. No, I won’t say how many times I missed – but my hit rate is improving.

I used to think I needed the semi auto Bennelli that occasionally shows up (only ‘cause it’s half price of a new Citori). Now, I’m convinced that (and this is a BIG “if”) IF I learn to run it, then all I need is an 870 express.

I have two questions:
1: If you were to buy a new (or readily available used – please don’t tell me to search for three years for an old wingmaster unless you have one for sale in the $300 range) 870 express for this purpose only, would you want the 26 or 28 inch barrel? Also, any clues on what the choke on this gun is compared to the other guns? I don’t, but I’d rather it be tighter so I continue to improve my skillset.
2: I’ve never shot a formal clay game. Therefore, I am completely ignorant in this arena. But, from what I’ve read, it seems that the “birds” come from predictable directions at predictable speeds. Is this so? If it is, then is what I’m doing better or worse for my shotgunning skills. It seems to me that, since the hand throwing is so unpredictable, it should be better practice for acquiring a target you’re not expecting. But I’ve been wrong before. Once. Ok. More than once, but that’s a different thread…

PS: The Winchester has required disassembly every trip for the last three. Not sure what cleaning, etc. is done on it, but it doesn’t seem too bad when I pick it up. The Mossberg requires riding the safety as it will apply itself when the need is not there. Hence my decision on the ubiquitous Remington.
 
1. I would go with 26" barrel. I've had two 870s at 28" and ended up cutting them both down to 24-25". Love the swing on the shorter barrel. Felt I could acquire the target faster.
2. If you mean trap or skeet, yes, they may be fairly predictable but I still think anytime you can get some shooting on clays, do it. Sporting clays are more realistic and come & go at different speeds and angles.
Remember, even a bad day at the range is better than a good day at work.
 
I would suggest a 28" barrel for anything but skeet, where I like a 26", but I am old school so I don't think I need a 30" like they are preaching now days. Everyone has their own preferences. Formal clay games include Sporting Clays, Skeet, and Trap, and all are quite different.
With a RemChoked barrel you can use whatever choke you desire.
 
Go with 28".A little more weight forward is a good thing on a clays shooter.

Expresses come with a Modified choke. Read the Chokes 101 thread up top for info.

I'd add a Full just because and an IC for closer stuff.

Trapshooters like predictable targets. Skeet shooters also.

Shotgunners LOVE tricky, unpredictable targets and new presentations. It steepens the learning curve but shortens it also.

You sure sound like a shotgunner to me.

Enjoy!
 
The more practice you have shooting anything in the air the better off you will be. Almost every modern shotgun has choke tubes now, use open chokes for close targets, tight for long ones. Shooting an over/under I used 32 and 30 inch barrels, 28" on semi autos. The longer sighting plane will only help you, 26 inch barrels only really help at extremely close ranges.
 
I’ve been going out w/ a few guys on a semi regular basis to shoot some casual clays. At first, the only gun I could hit anything with was a friend’s Citori. Since everyone wants to shoot it, and it’s the easiest manual of arms, first timers spend a lot of time with it. So, I’ve been spending more time with the available pumps. Usually a Winchester and a Mossberg. Not sure of the exact models, but the only real difference is the safety location – and one round capacity.

When there are three people on the firing line and five people with hand throwers tossing as fast as they can, it’s a BLAST!!! Yesterday, I twice hit five as fast as I could run the gun - with a pump. We don’t keep score, and with everything going on, it’s impossible to verify, but I know what I hit. No, I won’t say how many times I missed – but my hit rate is improving.

I used to think I needed the semi auto Bennelli that occasionally shows up (only ‘cause it’s half price of a new Citori). Now, I’m convinced that (and this is a BIG “if”) IF I learn to run it, then all I need is an 870 express.

I have two questions:
1: If you were to buy a new (or readily available used – please don’t tell me to search for three years for an old wingmaster unless you have one for sale in the $300 range) 870 express for this purpose only, would you want the 26 or 28 inch barrel? Also, any clues on what the choke on this gun is compared to the other guns? I don’t, but I’d rather it be tighter so I continue to improve my skillset.
2: I’ve never shot a formal clay game. Therefore, I am completely ignorant in this arena. But, from what I’ve read, it seems that the “birds” come from predictable directions at predictable speeds. Is this so? If it is, then is what I’m doing better or worse for my shotgunning skills. It seems to me that, since the hand throwing is so unpredictable, it should be better practice for acquiring a target you’re not expecting. But I’ve been wrong before. Once. Ok. More than once, but that’s a different thread…

PS: The Winchester has required disassembly every trip for the last three. Not sure what cleaning, etc. is done on it, but it doesn’t seem too bad when I pick it up. The Mossberg requires riding the safety as it will apply itself when the need is not there. Hence my decision on the ubiquitous Remington.
My mom bought a Wingmaster for $300 in like new condition a couple of months ago at a gun show. There were about 4 others we saw at the same show for the same price. They are not hard to find. And used guns are way overpriced in my part of the country.

The reason the older Wingmasters are cheap is because they are easy to find. The reason they are easy to find is because they just shoot 2 3/4 inch shells. Hunters want 3" shells for steel shot. Mom's gun is awesome for clays (we just mess around like you are looking to do).

I'd highly suggest going to a gun show to get one. It will be a lot nicer gun then anything else you can get for 300 bucks.
 
rcmodel: How have I not known about that site?? Thanks!

Dave: Thanks, but I'm not a shotgunner yet. I'm still just a wanna be. I remember reading all those stickys a long time ago. Working back through them now - lots of good stuff you've made available. You do have me confused though. You say to add a full choke just because. I was thinking that should be my only one; you know, steepen and shorten and all that. But then I read your words,

Ammo is so much better now that some older shotguns like the Model 12 are oft overchoked. It's hard to make a case for chokes past IM (.025) except for turkey loads.

Methinks I need to get my paws on a scatter gun of my own, shoot at a few hundred clays, pattern it at several distances with several loads (oh crap. this means I may have to spend a whole day shooting) and then decide what mods to make/add.
 
bdjansen: Thanks for the info. Now you've got me thinking about how long 2¾ chambers were all there were - and what they accomplished.

Thinking out loud here: It would seem that a 12ga full choke should deliver a properly placed payload with the same effectiveness as a 10?ga IC at the same distance. Is this logic or fallacy? I'm thinking that more pellets in a tighter pattern v/s the same # of pellets hitting the target (w/ extraneous pellets patterning around the target) = same result. Now I'm hijacking my own thread.

If only I had a first issue hardback of, "Shotgunning 101," by Dave McCracken. Then I could reference page numbers, etc.
 
If only I had a first issue hardback of, "Shotgunning 101," by Dave McCracken. Then I could reference page numbers, etc.
Yeah Dave, what's the ISBN for that one?
 
As noted by Dave, the weight forward thing helps. That's one of the reasons a double is easier to hit with than a single barrel. I started organized sporting clays with an 870. Shot maybe 50-60 out of 100 most outings. First time out with a Weatherby O/U I shot in the mid 80's.

One of the reasons it helped so much is that the majority of the shots are pairs. It also has a recoil reducer in the stock.
 
IM Remchokes are hard to find. And a Full can help you get on the birds better. Still for now, I suggest using Mod. There's not that much difference betwixt Mod and IM, anyway. Load selection can vary the pattern more than swapping between Mod and IM.

IMO, Full is best for handicap long yardage trap, squirrels, turkey and tightening up one's game.

My choice for SC runs LM in a pump or IC/LM in the Beretta. If I'm working on a given presentation, I may go to Mod in the 870s or LM/M in the O/U. Just knowing the density's up and spread down helps me focus. Of course, YMMV, my loads are quite tight patterning.

Mod's a good place to start. Good luck!
 
Re hard copies of my Magnum Opus(pun intended).....

I can retire next Jan. At that point, I shall have time to refine and edit a few hundred pages of stuff, not all of which has been on line.

At that point I shall figure out publication options. And prices.....
 
Well, I just found out the pumps I've been shooting have 28" barrels. Why fix what's not broken?

Hopefully in a couple three weeks I should be able to free up enough cash to pull the trigger. I don't think I'm gonna worry about choke just yet. I'll find one, bring it home and pattern it first. Thanks for all the help guys!
 
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