pump or semiauto??

[mc_coy]

Hi all,
I'm planning to buy a new shotgun. So far I only shot a 12-gauge trap gun, 2 overlapping barrels.

I need the gun for home defense, mostly, for fun secondly. I live in the countryside, home defense may mean shooting from the window to 20 yards distance and over.

My questions are the following:

providing price (within reason) is not a problem, would you choose a pump action or a semiauto?

I saw the Benelli M2 practical and I'm drooling over it:




sorry the image I found is pretty bad. I held the cheaper M2 version at the gunshop and it feels great!!

they say though it won't reload with light shots and non lethals...

Any more cons you can think about compared to teh pump action??

 

[The Deer Hunter]

I have a similar gun (Benelli M1-Super 90) and the only problem I have with it is the loading gate pinches your thumb if your not paying attention during loading and that there are a couple buttons for bolt hold open and bolt release which could potentially get confusing in a stressful situation.

But besides that my Benelli has had maybe 2 misfires because it had never really been cleaned.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Semiautos as a rule cost more than pumps. If money is really tight a pump is a better bet not to bust the budget.

Given good guns in good condition with good ammo, reliability of one over the other shouldn't be an issue. Some folks tout being able to fire the semi with only one hand (if the other hand/arm is busy/disabled) as an advantage- could be, likely won't be an issue but there it is anyway.

And AFAIK that's about all there is to talk about on the issue. Different strokes for different folks, I've been shooting 870s for a looong time and don't see me changing any time soon. YMMV of course, shoot a bunch'o'shotguns and pick what you like.

lpl/nc

 

[Ash]

I have semi autos, pumps, and over/under shotguns. I enjoy them all, but there's just something about the elegant simplicity and ruggedness of a pump-action shotgun.

Ash

 

[ronto]

For HD you can't beat a pump...The best of both worlds...reliability AND capacity.

P.S. My CCW is a 357 revolver. Reliability trumps capacity for SD.

 

[igpoobah]

I've seen lots of semi shotties jam. Even helped strip one down in the middle of a pheasant hunt, lost 15 minutes or so....

Never have heard boo out of a pump though. They always seem to work...

 

[mc_coy]

Thanks for the feedback so far, it would seem the semiautos may have some reliability problems.

I read there are some models (Benelli supernova 90?) where you can switch from semiauto action to pump action.

Would it be the best of both worlds or an unnecessary complication, potentially spawning mechanical problems?

I also read the following tips from Todd Jarret:

Let me show you a few options that you can put on your pump shotgun today. Extension tubes, porting, having the forcing cones released. Slings, reducing recoil stocks like the Knoxx SpecOps system. Now let me show you what all of these options can do for you on a bank of targets.

Are the particulars in bold something you normally add or modify, or is there a model which displays such features out of the box? I've no idea what extension tubes and slings are, and what release of the forcing cones entails...

 

[Ash]

Nah, most of those things are not really needed, some are little better than bobbles added. Porting is of no real value. Extension tubes refers to magazine extensions to give more rounds in the pipe.

The Benelli M2 is a fine shotgun and will do everything you need it to do. For home defense, though, I like a plain-jane shotgun. Leave the bells and whistles off for me, as the less strapped, bolted, or glued on the better. Others differ in that opinion and that is fine. For me, a good, solid, pump-action is ideal for home defense. A good, solid, semi like the Remington 11-87 is great, too. My grandfather used a Remington Model 11 for many decades for home defense, mostly to kill armadillos and feral cats. He never had a problem with it.

Me, I use a Mossberg 500 and am satisfied. I also have a Savage 720, which, like the Remington 11 is based on the Browning A-5, and it has never given me trouble. I also have a Savage 333 to round things out.

The simpler you keep your shotgun, the less there is to break. As Scotty said, "The more you overtake the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain." Sage advice that works for me.

Ash

 

[GunTech]

The main reason for the Benelli M4 is that inertia unlocked guns like the Benelli M1/M2 are weight sensitive. If you add to much weight to them, they become unreliable. The Military wanted to be able to add things like starlight sights.

An original M1/M2 is a much simpler gun and will require less cleaning. As noted, it will cost much more - about 3x what a good pump gun will cost. A semi is more easily operated if you only have one hand available.

I like my M1S90

 

[Fred Fuller]

I read there are some models (Benelli supernova 90?) where you can switch from semiauto action to pump action.

That would be the Benelli M3 IIRC. Ancient saying: "Jack of all trades, master of none." Some folks own 'em and endorse 'em, none of the folks I would seek out and pay money to for defensive shotgun training do. YMMV on that one.

Basically it matters much much less what hardware you own than how good you are at running it and hitting what you shoot at with it. Skill doesn't come in a box, it can't be bought. It has to be learned.

Forget the "nonlethal" loads, ANYTHING fired in a shotgun (including blanks) can kill. If you aren't justified in shooting with a lethal load then you aren't justified in shooting with a so-called nonlethal (actually referred to now as LESS lethal) load.

Over 20 yards? Learn to shoot slugs. Get a shotgun with sights if necesary.

Go out and shoot a bunch'o'shotguns of various types (from friends, family, gun club rentals, etc.) and pick whatever suits YOU best. Then train/practice with it till it handles like a body part.

lpl/nc

 

[waterhouse]

I saw the Benelli M2 practical

Keep in mind that the gun you mentioned was designed very specifically to compete in competition. It has a 26" barrel, which is 6-8" longer than most people have on their HD guns, partly because it was designed to hold a lot of shells and you wouldn't want your magazine tube sticking out 8" past the end of your barrel.

The choice of semi or pump is up to you.

If you want a Benelli, I'd suggest the regular tactical model with the 18" barrel. You can save some money by finding a used M1 as well.

 

[jlbraun]

(arnold)

The Saiga 12-gauge autoloader.

(/arnold)

Available in stock configuration for about $400:

Or converted to pistol grip for $700.

 

[Chuck R.]

It’s funny, but people always mention the reliability issue when choosing between a pump and auto shotgun, but will not hesitate to rely a semi pistol or rifle. But yet, I’ve seen way more jams with semi pistols and rifles than I have with shotguns. Maybe it’s just me.

In my experience a good auto shotgun properly maintained with good ammunition is about as reliable as it gets.

Add in the human factor as part of the “system” and the auto may even be considered more reliable. Based the couple shotgun courses I’ve taken and a couple matches and I’ve seen more pumps short-shucked than I have autos jam.

Chuck

 

[TrapperReady]

Never have heard boo out of a pump though. They always seem to work...

I've helped plenty of folks un-jam a pump. I've also seen plenty of autos jam. Either can work, or either can fail. You need to pick one, shoot it enough to become proficient and confident that it will function. You also need to perform regular maintenance to ensure that it continues to do so.

 

[kentucky_smith]

My problem is I want to hold my left hand close to the reciever, seems unbalanced way out there on a pump.

Trying to correct that with a model 12.

 

[ravencon]

A pump shotgun is as reliable as the operator. In a high stress situation it wouldn't be hard to short stroke a pump or to even forget to cycle it.

A well chosen semi should avoid these issues but it will cost you more. I've got a Benelli M1 and a Mossberg 590. Of the two, I'd go with the Benelli. YMMV.

 

[H2O MAN]

Other than a model 94 and a PYTHON all of my weapons are semi auto.

My HK/Benelli M1S90 is super fast, extremely accurate and it requires no pumping.

 

[KBintheSLC]

they say though it won't reload with light shots and non lethals...

I would not recommend using anything that will not do the job. If the situation does not call for "deadly force", then you should not use a gun. If it does call for "deadly force", then you should not sell your shotgun short by loading it with stuff designed for the riot squad. I only use #4 and larger buck shot... preferably 0 or 00 buck.

That said, I would go with the pump for better reliability.

I've helped plenty of folks un-jam a pump.

Possible... yes. But it is less likely than a semi jamming. Most pump jams are user errors like not cycling the action fast and hard enough to eject the expired round.

 

[rmarcustrucker]

reliablility of a pump can't be beat. I've not met an auto that was as dependable unless it's that cool new one with a cylinder magazine.

 

[PJR]

Most often when a pump fails it's the operator's fault.

Most often when a semi fails it's because of lack of maintenance or poor shell selection.

Both work. The pump requires more practice and less attention. The semi more attention and less practice. Choose the one that suits you best.

 

[Defensory]

A semi-auto is your best bet for home/self-defense.

Be sure to check out the Benelli M2 Tactical with Comfortech stock, which significantly reduces recoil and barrel rise.

 

[mc_coy]

keep'em rolling!

Very interesting answers to my original post, even if the various opinions disagree, they highlight different aspects of the same issue. I'll sure weigh in all your insight before purchase (and, what the heck, I might even buy semi and pump! If the former jams, I've got the latter, or reverse!!).

Pls. keep those answers rolling!!

 

[Pete409]

Chuck R in post #13 hit the nail on the head. There is nothing inherently unreliable about a pump shotgun, but when you introduce the human factor (under stress and scared *****less) the pump guns have a great tendency to jam due to "short stroking" by the operator.

An auto shotgun, OTOH, knows nothing about stress or being scared. All it knows is that if it is properly taken care of and proper ammunition is used, it will work with almost 100% certainty.... regardless how scared or excited the operator is.

If you trust your life to an auto pistol, why should a shotgun be any different?

I see newbies bring their pump shotguns to the clay target range all the time and most of them have jam after jam when trying to shoot doubles (2 shots in quick succession).

 

[PJR]

Depends on the semi-auto. Twice I've had Remington auto loaders rendered hors de combat due to broke parts (link and action bars.)

Pump guns require practice. When I've seen people short shuck it's because they weren't familiar with the gun. Pump it like you're trying to break it.

 

[Pete409]

Depends on the semi-auto. Twice I've had Remington auto loaders rendered hors de combat due to broke parts (link and action bars.)

I've got a Remington 1100 autoloader. I've put about 2,500 rounds through it without a single broken part.

I've also got a Beretta 390 autoloader. I've put about 13,000 rounds through it with only one broken part. That's about a 99.992% reliability rate due to parts breakage. That's considerably better than the reliability rate of someone under great stress trying to pump a pump gun. Besides, pumps are not immune to parts breakage. The reason you don't see more parts breakage on pumps is because few people shoot them enough to break a part. Most people buy a pump gun, shoot 3 boxes of shells through it, and then proclaim themself an expert shotgunner with an infallible shotgun.

One of the biggest myths in shotgunning is that pump guns are super reliable and never jam. I've not only seen pumps jam on countless occasions, I've also seen them eject both the empty round and the round out of the magazine onto the ground. I've seen pumps jam when trying to feed two rounds at the same time. I've seen them eject the empty and close the bolt on an empty chamber with live shells still in the magazine.

In my opinion, the average shotgun owner would be better served with a well-maintained auto than with a pump shotgun for self defense.