Purpose of a carbine?

[Lobotomy Boy]

Mondocomputerman, you can define anything any way you want, but that doesn't make it so. For example, you can call a dog turd a dollar bill, but you still can't buy a cup of coffee with it.

The Thompson was a submachine gun, and a good example of why the arguments against pistol-caliber carbines don't hold water. While it wasn't ideal, and was made obsolete by the introduction of the assault rifle, it was still plenty effective as a combat weapon. There's a whole lot of dead Germans who can attest to that fact.

I have a 9mm carbine (Ruger PC9). While that wouldn't be my first choice as a combat weapon, it would do in a pinch. At the range I regularly get sub 2-inch groups at 50 yards while the .45 ACP handgun shooters are lucky to get sub 4-inch groups at 25 yards. This added accuracy helps compensate for the lack of stopping power of the 9mm round. 15 rounds in the head beat 8 rounds in the torso any day.

For close combat I'd be perfectly happy with a .45 ACP carbine, or better yet, a 10mm carbine. Yes, I'd rather have a .223, or better yet, a 6.5 or 6.8, but I'm still waiting for someone to bring a .223 to market with the right combination of reliability, size, and price. In the meantime, I plan to buy a Beretta CX-4 Storm in .45 ACP as soon as it is available this coming fall.

 

[ceetee]

Another part that pertains mostly to law enforcement and slightly to home defense is the much greater accuracy than a pistol, plus the greatly redused risk of over penetration in any kind of room clearing scenario.

He may be invisioning that time when the goblins have invaded the family castle, forcing him to shoot over/around his loved ones to eliminate the risk. Tell her to buy him plenty of practice ammo, and let him show her how much fun it is!

 

[Smoke]

mondocomputerman

I think some of us are getting confused when it comes to carbines.

Yes, you certainly sound confused.

I do not consider the 30-30 to be a carbine, regardless of barrel length. It does not shoot a pistol-sized cartridge, so it is not a carbine.

So a carbine only shoots pistol sized cartridges?

If the M1 Carbine is a carbine, as is the M2 (full auto M1 carbine), then you can also consider the Thompson a carbine since it shoots .45 pistol ammo.

I don't follow your logic at all....but the statement IS true.

I also don't consider my AK a carbine, even though the barrel length is short. It fires an intermediate cartridge, between a pistol and full size rifle. I don't know how I would consider a krinkov.

What is a full sized rifle cartridge?

Read sm's definition from the THR library. I couldn't put it any better. Early carbines, and the term, were developed before pistol caliber cartridges were commonly chambered in rifles. Ever seen a Sharps carbine (.45-70)

Smoke

 

[FPrice]

I found this definition of the carbine, feel free to agree/disagree and post your reasons. I don't post this as THE definitive answer, just a good starting point.

"Carbine

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Carbine is a firearm, similar to but shorter than an ordinary rifle or musket in barrel and stock. The carbine was originally developed to be used by cavalry soldiers, for whom a full-length rifle was too heavy and cumbersome to be fired from horseback. Carbines have also been issued to non-combat personnel, such as cooks, technicians etc., for whom a lighter weapon is sufficient and desirable. Many military rifles have been manufactured in both full-length and carbine versions. After WWII the assault rifle, which is basically a cross-breed of the carbine and a submachine gun, has become the standard infantry weapon, and carbine as a category of military firearms has virtually vanished.

The carbine is distinguished from the submachine gun by its type of ammunition. Carbines use rifle rounds, while handguns and submachine guns do not.

Today the term 'carbine' is inaccurately used for a variety of firearms, basically anything between a pistol and a rifle. Pistols with a shoulder stock, submachine guns or assault rifles with only single fire capability and small rifles designed to fire pistol cartridges can be seen to erroneously bear the title. The Colt M4 is the main carbine of the U.S. Army. "

 

[JShirley]

With virtually all expanding ammunition, carbine barrels will cause enough velocity increase so less penetration occurs than from the same caliber pistol, reducing the chance of shoot-through.

Federal EFMJ is an exception to this.

John

 

[Deadman]

For home defence purposes I have three main choices :-

1. 40inch+ manually operated .22 rifle,
2. 40inch+ manually operated Mosin/Mauser type rifle,
3. 33inch manually operated .357/.38 carbine.

When considering noise, muzzle flash, weight, length, overpenetration and terminal ballistics my 1894CP would be the best compromise.

 

[mondocomputerman]

You've all got good points! My definition of carbine is certainly changing. I wonder what they would consider "pistols" that shoot rifle cartridges. Like the Remington XP-100 or Thompson/Center Contender in a 30-06.

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

There were lever-action pistol-caliber carbines prior to the first practical submachine guns, but I don't think people were all that hung up on semantics back in the late 19th century. I know my ancestors were too busy trying to survive in the new world to worry about such things.

I think the reason the definition of "carbine" had to be broadened to include pistol-caliber rifles in the 20th century was because non-lever action long guns in pistol calibers became more available to the general public. Most of these were semi-auto and not fully automatic, thus could not be considered "submachine guns."