Home defense carbine

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

Black Snowman

Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2003
Messages
3,505
Location
Kansas City, KS
I'd like a carbine for home defense. Pistols are nice but I'd like something easier to control and handle. I know you're thinking "Duh, shotgun" but I'd like to explore the possibilities of a pistol caliber carbine. I might still end up with a shotgun but they tend to be longer than what I'm looking for.

If money and legality were no object my 1st choice would be a P90 :D But what are some realistic choices? The barrels on the UMC and Berreta Cx4 seem a bit long and I have some tight spaces in my house. What about a MAC or Uzi style carbine? I don't really want to shell out the money for a SP-89 and I'd like a larger cartridge than a 9mm. I was thinking maybe a .45 ACP.

So opinions?
 
I just rememberd one of my thoughts behind the carbine, removable magazine. So I can store the gun unloaded but load it quickly if nessisary. That way if the perp gets to it first it's only going to be a club or if there's a struggle I can drop the mag so I hopefully don't get shot with my own gun. There are several magazine fed shotguns out there, like the EAA Saiga based ones (available in a 19" barreled version). That would fit that requirement but they're pretty large from what I can tell. A carbine would have a much shorter action.
 
A Kel-Tec Sub-2000 in 9mm or .40 might be just what you're looking for. Very short, manueverable, and lightweight. Detachable mag in the pistol grip. About $300.

The bad news is the trigger. The Sub-9's was much nicer.

John
 
If you can find one, a Marlin Mdl. 45 might meet your requirements. It's a .45ACP semi-auto carbine that uses 1911 magazines. OAL is just 35½". They went out of production in 1999, however.
 
Hi-Point 9MM carbine.....works fine, perfect for what you are talking about.
and only around $200............10 shot magazine.....
 
I just read that the Kel-Tec will take the Glock high-caps, which I have a couple of already loaded with Federal premium defense. Are these actually reliable guns? They look like cheap toys (of course so does the UMC ;) ).

I'll definately check out some of the other options as well.
 
Ya, light would be good. You can find a way to slap a light on almost anything even if you have to resort to MagLite + Duct Tape so I didn't put accessory rails as a requirement.

Just for the "nifty neato keen" factor I thought about a carbine upper for an AR might be an option too. 'Cause I don't have an AR yet either! Too bad you can only spend money once.
 
I assume lever-action carbine's are out of the question? There are several of those in .357 or .44 magnum that are quite nice. My HD long-gun is a Marlin 1894C in .357 magnum and I'm quite pleased with it.

Given your price restrictions, In 9mm there's the Kel-Tec Sub 2000 (which will use S&W or Glock hi-caps), the Hi Point, and the Marlin Camp 9 (which will use S&W hi-caps).

In .40 you've got the Ke-Tec Sub 2000 again. Supposedly Hi Point will be putting out a .40 version Real Soon Now.

In .45ACP there's the Marlin Camp 45 which uses 1911 mags. The Marlins in both 9mm and .45 are no longer in production. There are rumors of a .45 version of the Hi Point but I'll believe it when I see it.

Of the ones above, only the Marlin Camp x and the lever-guns are massive enough to make a decent club. The Hi Point is *really* light for it's size. The one time I've fired one I thought the recoil was worse than my Marlin .357.
 
Find a used Marlin Camp Carbine in 9mm or 45acp.
The 9 uses S&W 59 series mags.
The 45 uses 1911 mags.

30 rounders are available for the 9mm version.
 
I second the lever gun choice. I'm starting to develop a load for my 1894S in .44 Mag.

Too bad glock doesn't have a carbine, that would be perfect for you sinc eyou already have mags. The Beretta storm would be perfect for me! heh. Maybe I'll look into those more...

I've heard that those Kel-Tec folding carbines are junk, but then again...that's just unsubstantiated internet rumors. :D I've never held or shot one. Didn't know they could use glock mags, so that's a bonus.

And, everyone seems to be going nuts over Kel-Tec's little pocket guns...
 
Oh, and if you already happen to own a 1911 or a Glock, you could always check in to one of the carbine conversion units from Mech Tech

I have absolutely no experience with these, so I can't tell you anything about them other than what you see on the web site.
 
A MAC or Uzi is still just pistol ammo out of a little larger gun. You might get some additional velocity by using some of the hotter sub gun ammo, but otherwise, the 9mm parabellum round was designed to reach velocity at 4" of barrel. If going with a Mac or Uzi and regular ammo, then just get a Glock with a 4" barrel and 30 (33?) round pre ban magazine.

BryanP mentions lever action guns. You can get some nifty calibers in lever action above pistol ammo. For example, .45-70 will do quite nicely if you have several bad guys lined up in the hallway and want to shoot all with the same round.

.45 acp out of a carbine offers no real advantage over .45 acp out of a handgun with the except of sight radius. The .45 acp is designed to reach velocity out of a 5" barrel. You may still get some increases up to 6" or so, but after that or by 6" or so, then you start LOSING velocity. Basically, the .45 carbine is far from ideal. It worked well in the Tommy gun, but that was because of the full auto aspect, higher mag capacity, and longer sight radius for longer ranges out to 50 yards or so is what made it so nifty over the 1911.

The .223 is really a pretty good carbine round for home defense. Give it some thought. It has difficulty quite often in penetrating multiple layers of dry wall. Of course, it will penetrate when you don't want it to and not when you do. While probably not an option for you, a local PD has decided to go with 10" barreled AR-15s instead of MP5s because the 9mm out of the MP5 has a better chance of over penetrating walls.
 
I've got a Marlin Camp 9. It's a great little carbine, very light and handy, accurate, reliable, good ergonomics, well placed controls, uses hi-cap S&W 5906 mags. My only complaint is it that the bore can't be cleaned from the breach, but then again, neither can the bore on the Garand.

For a pistol caliber carbine, I'd highly recommend it. It's just that more and more, I'm starting to wonder about the utility of a 9mm carbine when I have a .357 revolver, a 12 gauge and an SKS available.

CampCarbine.jpg
 
M-1 Carbine with 22 Johnson Spitfire barrel. Light, handy and reliable.
 
Hmm, lots of good suggestions. I saw one of the Mech-Tech conversions for a 1911 at a local store. Didn't realize they had come out with more options and the price had come down so much. When they first hit the streets they were outrageously expensive. I'm glad to see they'be been successful enough for the prices to come down and selection to go up.

I thought about a 223 carbine but was worried about the penetration. Good to know that it's not as good through drywall. Hmm, there's an HK 53 at Cabela's for about $2500. But for that kind of money I could get the .50 BMG rifle I always wanted . . . and the Mech-Tech upper for my Glock.

There are lots of other 223 carbine's that aren't so outragously priced.

Wow, no wonder I asked, this is hard to decide!
 
I got to handle a UMC at a local store and it is sweet, but the barrel seems excessively long. Since the USPs can take 45 Super I'd imagine the UMC could as well but perhaps not being gas operated. If it could that would give the longer barrel some point as I could load with a slower burning powder to get more velocity out of it.

$1000 is a lot of money, but like you say, if you're gonna do it . . .
The only real thing holding me back from a UMC is that barrel hanging out so far.

I met an FFL that my brother bought his AR-15 from and he had a Department of Energy M-16 9mm conversion with a special fitting on the muzzel for mounting into the firm points to shoot out of the armored vehicles they trasported sensative neuclar materials on. Very rare. He used it for home defense. Had a Pro-Point 5 on it. That was a slick rig. Probably worth more than his truck by a considerable margin.

Of course if anyone broke into his house the 1st thing they'd see was the French .30 cal machine gun pointed out the front door on a tri-pod. It wasn't functional at the time but looked impressive :)
 
Downloaded the UMC manual. It says the usual disclaimer of standard, modern, new, factory loaded ammo only and only in .45 ACP.

I also see that it's not gas opperated but delayed blow-back.

I'm sure it would survive some .45 Super but a steady diet sounds like a bad idea.

Edit: found this on the RemTec page: http://www.remtek.com/arms/hk/mil/ump/ump45.htm

"The UMP45 will easily handle a steady diet of ball, hollow-point and +P ammunition as well as limited amounts of the .45 Super. "
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

D
  • Locked
Home defense
2
Replies
29
Views
1K
gondorian
G
B
  • Locked
Home defense carbine: 9mm v. 223
2 3 4
Replies
99
Views
33K
Robert
Robert
J
  • Locked
Carbine vs. Pistol for Home Defense?
2
Replies
32
Views
2K
Squidward
S
Panzerschwein
  • Locked
  • Poll
9mm Carbine for defense?
2 3 4 5 6
Replies
136
Views
10K
JShirley
JShirley
B
  • Locked
5.56/.223 for Home Defense?
2 3 4
Replies
79
Views
8K
Robert
Robert
Back
Top