Home defense carbine

[Jack19]

How about an AR-15 and a good set of Peltor earmuffs?

I'd go with an AR prior to a no longer importable UZI or SP-89. It's easy to hang a light off an AR as well.

 

[Glockster35]

I have fired the fully auto UMP .45, and it's a blast (no pun intended). I would love to add one to my collection, if they weren't so darned expensive.

I went with a gun that I inherited, since it isn't worth much anyway. I got the Universal brand .30 Carbine, or a M-1 carbine clone.

Mine is reliable (thank god) and in really good condition. It's fun to shoot and getting ammo is still pretty easy. It's actually one of the funnest guns I own.

 

[hboy35]

hi-point

I just got back from the range this morning trying out my recently purchased Hi-Point carbine. A good weapon for the price. I like the short length and lightweight. Recoil was a pretty good punch in the shoulder, though. Ran 100rds of wallyworld value pack winchesters and CCI blazers thru it without a hiccup. Kept 10rds in a inch and a quarter hole at 20yds. Picked it up for $100 used. Might be something to consider......

 

[cslinger]

Lots of good options.

I like Lever actions because they are short, maneuverable and can be insanely powerful. Plus they are so friendly and nostagic but if I were going to use a carbine for HD I would go with what we do have....

Sheslinger's, 16inch Bushmaster AR15. It is extremely handy, had cheap and available ammo and magazines, 30 shots on tap, very potent short range caliber and is basically the Lego set of the firearms world. You buy the base toy....ahhh gun and then buy any accessory or conversion you could dream of. You want pistol caliber you buy a 9mm/.40//45 upper. You want a light no problem. You want optics have at it. You want a way to carry spare ammo on the gun take your pick of options etc.

It really makes a find HD carbine and is extremely adaptable to whatever need an individual user might have.

The up front cost is a bit more but you get soooo much more versatility and adaptability then most of your other choices.

I've shot the Ruger PC9, Hi-Point carbine, Kel Tec Sub-9, M1 Carbine, various lever actions etc. and to be honest any of the mag fed carbines would fit your criteria just fine and once you get a 9mm, .40 or .357 maggie cooking out of a 16-20 inch barrel they really do start to become a new animal, especially .357.

Chris

 

[Black Snowman]

I want an AR, I want a .223 and I want a HD carbine . . . how much does a real M4 go for these days Well, I can live with an M4gery or other carbine just as easily.

Oooh, I know . . . I need the Bushmaster Bullpup M17S. That would be perfect! At those short ranges I don't need a fabulous trigger and it's REALLY compact. Get a 40 round mag and I won't have to worry too much about reloading

I still need to get a real AR of course . . . but I've always wanted the bullpup anyway and this is a good excuse

Now that I've decided . . . I just need $$$ :banghead:

 

[cslinger]

Of all the M17 bullpups I have handled, never shot, not one of them screamed quality firearm to me.

Contact Southern Ohio Guns and ask what they can do on a price on a Bushmaster carbine. The standard length guns are $699 NIB.

The M4gery stock looks cool and all but if it can't collapse you might as well get the more comfortable full size stock or stubby stock if you want a really short carbine and at least you get the trap door storage.

I have been uniformly impressed with Bushmasters offerings.

Chris

 

[Black Snowman]

Local shop has a good selection of Bushmasters including the M17S at $709 and I know I can talk them down for that. CDNN has them for $640. I'll buy local but I can use that for leverage on the price.

Other than the triggers sucking I haven't hear anything bad from actual owners. I'm going to do some more research on it though. Maybe hit the AR forums and ask the folks around here.

 

[juicy]

ive been looking for a m1 carbine all over

anyone willing to part with theirs or point me to a good deal?

 

[RustyHammer]

US Cal .30M1 Carbine

Right on!

 

[USGuns]

Sub2000 or Rav-9mm ?

I've got a 9mm Sub2000. Great little rifle for the money. Solid and a hoot to shoot!

Also check out the Rav-9mm from Feather:
http://www.featherusa.com/page3.html

 

[tommytrauma]

I bought a sub-2000 a few months ago. Mainly bought it as a toy / conversation piece, but quickly found that it's a solid, reliable little shooter. After a little over 1000 rounds, I haven't had a single malfunction. The thing is light, accurate to at least 100 yards, easy to aim, and has virtually no recoil. It's also nice and short. Practice ammo is dirt cheap, 10 bucks for 100 rounds at wally world. With the S&W 659 mag configuration, high cap mags are stupid cheap, costing me about 10 bucks apeice. Haven't had so much fun plinking since I got my first .22 when I was a kid.

It resides in my truck now, but I'm seriously considering picking up another for the bedroom, as my Wife greatly prefers it over a handgun. I've heard it referred to as the poor man's MP-5, and can see why.

Oh, Kel-tec also sells a light mount that's inexpensive and supposed to be pretty solid. They also sell a 10 buck sling that works surprisingly well as an assault sling.

 

[jercamp45]

Cool thread....I have been looking for one too!

Though I currently call it a 'patrol rifle'!
Some I have tried over the years.....
SKS...OK, reliable, acceptable...but even with SP ammo probably over penetrates fo HD.
AK...ultraCOOL....but same as above for ammo.
Marlin Camp45...since I have a few .45's laying about, it made/makes since to have a carbine that used all those mags, right? Ugh....I got a LEMON! No worky at all. Shot 300 plus rounds through it(hoping it would break in) with all sorts of magazines.....was definately not reliable!!! With Ball, JHP...anything. Maybe I should have sent it back to Marlin to be fixed. But it really looked like a cheaply made, fragile weapon designed by a committee.
The Mechtec conversion might be worth while......but it too does not seem to be well made...though I have heard reliable and accurate for the pistol rounds it is throwing. I may end up with one of these for an interesting accessory to experiment with next gun show.
Oh, and though the 45 acp in a carbine is thought of as a short range gun, my Marlin experiment was conducted on an open range and I was making hits quite aways out there(200 meters!). Just had to play with it...too bad it did not work well, for it produced a most satisfying 'clank' when that large heavy slug hit steel!!
I rented and shot both the USC and UMP(!!) at a range here in Vegas. If I could have my pick..naturally the UMP wins...but not because it is full auto capable!! The short barrel, folding stock and natural 'feel' made it the deciding winner!
The USC...well, another committee design inspired by the actions of a traitorous individual in washington. It did not feel 'right' and the ten rounder's are expensive. You can get it converted to use 'grease gun' mags. But, you are spending alot of money on weapon and conversion to do so!
The AR's....well, as much as I do not care for the poodle shooter...they do have so may options for it, you can customize it like you want it.
Anyone here tried the .45 acp conversion units for an AR? If so, PM me and tell me the specifics. Reliability, accuracy etc.
I pondered the M17...but as Cslinger said above it did not look real quality, and a read that it may have trouble with SP ammo....a requirement for anti personnel use IMHO!
I have no experience with the KelTec or Hi-point, though I have heard from owners of a gun range that both have stood up to alot of use. If they made one that shot .45 acp out of 1911(preferably Officer's sized) mags???? I would definately try it out as another experiential experiment.
The Berretta C4 Storm(?) looks very interesting...but it ain't yet a .45 and it won't use the chosen mags of my existing collection. But if you are uncommitted..........
YES to a light. A white light for HD or Patrol is a required accessory! Blinds oppenent...you can see but they cannot, and the light hurts the eyes!
My percieved need is perhaps different than many...I do not hunt(though I do track down some colorful individuals!). I like the detachable mag, the self loader concept, short over all length, and low recoil(old body, old bones) and the pistol caliber(if in .45) is fine by me. A quicker shot at 50 to 100 meters is my primary concern.
.02............
Jercamp45
He who runneth off at the fingers!!

 

[Black Snowman]

Eneded up going with the M17S for the simple fact that it was the shortest thing I could get for manuving through the house that wasn't NFA. Sights are horrible, trigger is mushy, and I haven't had a chance to get it to the range to try out the reliability yet but I LOVE this gun.

I like wierd actions, the trigger could be vastly upgraded if they had put about $10-20 more into the mechanism but it would only be more crisp and not more reliable. The actual mechanics of the trigger look solid as heck.

I got 3 used Israili Orlite magazines from CDNN and 2 work in it perfectly and the third doesn't always want to stay in the mag well. They all look the same to me so I'm working on that one.

I also have 1000 rounds of Wolf 55 gr HP ammo. Hollow points gave my Brothers Bushmaster carbine fits, if the same holds true for the M17S I'll likely have some ammo up for sale or trade

I'll most likely go to the range tomarrow to sight in the 50MM BSA dot sight I have on there now and I'll let you know what I think of it then.

 

[MagKnightX]

Steps to a good HD carbine:

1. Get M1 Carbine, USC, Cx4, or whatever carbine is wanted. OR, see step 1a.
2. Fill out ATF Form 5320.1, Application to Make and Register a Firearm, for manufacture of a short-barreled rifle. Get a $200 check made out to ATF, and a couple of fingerprint cards, and a letter from your local chief LEO. Send it to ATF. Wait for a while. OR, see step 2a.
3. AFTER FORM 1 IS APPROVED AND RETURNED WITH TAX STAMP, cut down barrel to suitable length, and recrown if necessary. Also, reposition sights if necessary. Get a folding stock and whatever eeeee-vil features you would like, as it is now no longer regulated by the 1994 Crime Bill.
4. Enjoy.

Alternate:
1a. Pick out a SBR in a suitable caliber for your needs. YOU CAN NOT PURCHASE IT YET!
2a. Fill out ATF Form 5320.4, Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of a Firearm, using whatever necessary information from SBR and Class 3 FFL Dealer who will eventually provide you with item. Get a $200 check made out to ATF, and a couple of fingerprint cards, and a letter from your local chief LEO. Send it to ATF. Wait for a while.
3a. AFTER FORM 4 IS APPROVED AND RETURNED WITH TAX STAMP, get your SBR carbine. Add a folding stock and whatever eeeee-vil featured you would like, as it is now no longer regulated by the 1994 crime bill.
4a. Enjoy.

Note: The above is not legal advice and MAY NOT BE CORRECT! Ensure that you fill out whatever form correctly and properly, and do not even try if you aren't 21 or over. State and local restrictions apply. Now git offa mah porch.

 

[Black Snowman]

Hey MagKnightX, sounds like a great plan if I weren't so impatient. I've actually always wanted an M17S and really just using this as a justification to spend the money There's a very good chance that down the road I'll do excatly what you are suggesting.

 

[Onslaught]

I think you made a good choice! I too like "unique" actions, and if I weren't left handed, I'd own one by now...

Hey, check this guy out for serious custom work on your M17S... He does everything from shorten the bbl to shortening and lightening the receiver itself, to adding a "preban look" authentic style muzzlebrake.

He keeps promising pistol caliber uppers for the M17s, but nothing just yet. He's so well known, and so good at what he does, he's usually a month or more behind.

Maybe I should put a bug in his ear about a left-handed conversion

 

[Kharn]

MagKnightX:
Only machine guns are exempt from the '94 AW ban, short barreled rifles must comply with the ban. BUT, on the other hand, any NFA weapon is exempt from the import bans (counting the # of US made parts).

Kharn

 

[Onslaught]

Only machine guns are exempt from the '94 AW ban, short barreled rifles must comply with the ban.

Yep, an SBR created from a Post-Ban rifle still cannot have a folding or telescoping stock, or a threaded bbl or flash supressor attached.