Putting to rest some horsepucky

[Bufford t. Justice]

First let me point out that I am in no way affiliated with or employed by Armscor nor do I plan to be. I am simply an owner of one of their products as I'm sure are many members here. So with that said I wanted to clear up some misleading statements made by others as I deem them unworthy of this forum. As some of you have heard and some others have latched on to. Armscor has had a few quality control issues. While for the people that had to deal with these personally, I'm sure it felt like the end of the world as we know it. I hate having issues with any piece of equipment purchased new as everyone does I'm sure. Especially when it's purchased to defend life and property.
What all the internet experts here and elsewhere fail to realize or just ignore is the fact that any manufacturer of any product that makes over 100,000 units a year is going to have the occasional hiccup. These factories are using mostly cnc (read computer controlled) machines in production. Machines malfunction. More importantly those same machines are programmed by human beings. The quality control people are...yep human beings. How many of you have never made an error in your life time? Overlooked a due date? Bounced a check? Broke something that you were trying to fix even if it didn't need fixing in the first place? There is a post up on Arfcom that shows a barrel with chatter marks in the rifling. This happens when machines malfunction and has happened at every factory that ever made a weapon. Instead of calling for a return ticket the poster instead decides to ask advice of arfcom forum members who proceed to tell him he bought a piece of scrap iron. People, every manufacturer has issues. EVERY SINGLE ONE Give them a chance to fix it before you decide to blast them on the internet. And for all of the armchair naysayers, maybe instead of dooming an entire company for the occasional slip up when you yourself have likely never even owned one of their products, stick to writing about something you know if there is such a thing.
For the record Armscor produces over 100,000 guns each year, 84,000 of which are 1911's. They must be doing something right to that kind of business. Something to think about. Source

 

[Fishslayer]

In before...

"You get what you pay for."

"Buy once, cry once."

"For just a little more you could get xxxx."

I did a load of research before buying my $540 OTD Tactical full size in 2010. I saw WAY more gripes with a certain very popular maker. So far it has exceeded expectations in every way once I placed the supplied magazine in the circular file where it belonged.

A friend who is into high end stuff tried it & said it was way more accurate than a cheap pistol had any right to be.

I have a SIG that came with a barrel that looked like it had been carved by Stevie Wonder with a bastard file... Wrong front sight.... anybody can screw up once in awhile. Where's that photo of the 7 shot S&W cylinder with 6 flutes... or was it the other way around?

 

[Roadking Rider]

I have a RIA 1911 built by Armscor and it has been absolutely flawless. I can't say the same for some of my friends 1911's that cost 3 possibly 4 times as much as my Rock did. Where is it better, cost more., and worth more if it doesn't go bang when you need it to.

 

[Hacker15E]

Which part is the "horsepucky"?

 

[Furncliff]

I have two RIA 1911's. The .45 my wife gave me for Christmas five years ago has been terrific. The 9mm that I bought cheap and second hand came to me with extraction problems. I had to send it back a second time for the same issue. Perhaps this would have made some nuts, but the people at Armscor were accessible and accommodating, so much so I wrote a letter of appreciation to the CEO.

 

[Bufford t. Justice]

Which part? Why the part about Armscor products being boat anchors of course. Pure nonsense.

 

[Wishoot]

It seems like Armscor is generally considered one of the good guys in the business.

 

[JTQ]

It seems like Armscor is generally considered one of the good guys in the business.

I agree. I've been a member on a couple 1911 forums for several years. The Armscor products, typically those stamped with the Rock Island Armory (RIA) label have a very good reputation, especially for customer service.

You do have to realize they are a "value priced gun". They work well, but generally aren't as pretty, or use the better quality parts used by the more expensive models.

 

[rondog]

As a former machinist, I know all about how the various types of cutters on machine tooling can very easily get damaged, how quickly they wear out, and how easy it is to not notice a poor cut or finish due to a bad tool until after the fact. CNC's are wonderful, but nothing is 100% flawless. If a tool is chipped, it ain't gonna work right. I also know how expensive tooling is.

But most people don't know about this stuff or understand it, they just expect perfection in everything. I own four Armscor/RIA 1911's and wouldn't trade them for anything. I wish I could buy more.

 

[JERRY]

I have a RIA 1911 G.I. I like it quite a bit....

that said, it don't expect high end performance from a low end price.

 

[BSA1]

So it is "horsepucky" for me to expect a band new gun to work out of the box without quality control issues such as messed up sights, machine marks, etc.?

In today's tough economic times I, like some other folks, have to carefully choose how I spend my disposable income. So you state I should accept a product that a company was too lazy/cheap/indifferent to make correctly the first time without telling other folks (and I should be thankful they are even willing to try to fix their screwup).

 

[jrdolall]

They should have bought a Glock and they would never have a problem.
Or a Kimber that just "needs the ramp polished".
Or a Colt that just needs "a 250 round break in period".

I personally think that the VAST majority of complainers about any gun or manufacturer are people who heard it from a friend who heard it from a cousin of a friend's cousin. There will always be individual pieces of equipment that are problematic. It happens just ask Toyota.

I don't own an Armscor 1911 but I do own one of their little AK 22s and it is a hoot to shoot. It is finicky like a lot of .22s but no moreso than any other.

 

[Bufford t. Justice]

No BSA that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm simply stating that because there's one bad apple in the bunch you don't burn down the orchard. Seems pretty clear to me.

 

[bannockburn]

I have worked on a RIA M1911 and found it to be well made using quality parts. This particular model was nickel plated and the plating in nearly every area of the frame and slide was evenly applied and of adequate thickness. Aftermarket parts from other manufacturers fit properly with little to no extra handfitting required. Overall I think their M1911s are decent guns at very affordable prices.

As a side note the friend of mine who owned the RIA that I worked on also at one time had an AMT Hardballer, which did require extensive work done to it simply to get it to function properly.

I mention this just in case someone needed a real example of a boat anchor.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Wow I'd like to comment but I can't get past that walloftext.

Seriously, I own an RIA and I've not had any problems with it except that the Parkerizing tends to rust.

 

[tomrkba]

While RIA 1911 may be good, the example I looked a appeared to have had the mainspring housing fitted with a chisel. There was no way I was going to buy a new gun that looked like that.

 

[jmr40]

I never really understood budget guns. Most of the time you can buy a mid-grade or higher quality used gun for about the same money. You spend $500 on a budget gun and 10 years later it is worth $300. Pay $500 for a better quality used gun and 10 years later it is worth $700.

If 90% of a particular product works just fine, a 10% failure rate would be considered junk. If 99.999% of all airplanes landed safely and only .001 percent crashed we would have several major airliners crash everyday and no one would want to fly. But some folks are content to try their luck on guns that have a much lower quality rating.

Even if you don't lose money on the gun, and it does work, most people will spend the savings in ammo in just a few range trips. Then be stuck for years knowing they could have had a better gun for the cost of a few boxes of ammo. Often the cost of only 2-3 boxes of ammo separates budget guns from top quality.

 

[BSA1]

In March of this year I purchased a new Taurus 22 mag. 8 shot revolver. The gun was so inaccurate on the range I returned it back to the factory under their lifetime warranty. The factory quickly determined the gun could not be repaired and replaced it with a new one.

22 Mag. Revolver ammo is impossible to get right now so I have only been able to shoot rifle ammo (1800 fps). This gun does not perform well with several brands of rifle ammo as one brand tends to keyhole and all brands of fired brass are very difficult to eject.

However since I have not been able to get any ammo designed for short barrel revolvers the jury is still out on the quality of this model.

With all of that in mind I will state on the Internet that;

Taurus has spotty quality control.
Do not use ammo designed for rifles. (Big bummer given the ammo shortage).
While I think the concept/design is a winner until I finally test it with ammo designed for this model I can not recommend buying it.
Finally Taurus customer service is great. BUT why did a gun that was such poor quality ever leave the factory in the first place?

As for burning down the orchard I like my apples without worms in them.

 

[JERRY]

face it folks, you don't have as good of quality control when you spot check every 24th gun or so.... opposed to checking every gun. that's how crap guns get through and into your hands.

if every gun was checked, the number having to go back for obvious poor workmanship would drop. this is part of the reason why a LWS cost what it does, or a baer....

if you buy a RIA be glad you got gun number 24....

 

[Furncliff]

Can I get a link to the place that issues quality ratings?

 

[Fremmer]

You would understand budget guns if you were on a budget. Not everybody can afford premium gun prices.

Heck, a mil-surp, a RIA, or some of the other budget guns will run just fine, and they are sure better than nothing.

 

[Magnuumpwr]

BSA, who makes 22 mag ammo strictly for handguns? I use the same ammo in both my rifles and pistol. Before you wig out, my pistol is a six shot Heritage. New out the door was less than $120 and ammo used is Hornady 30 gr V-max, muzzle velocity: 2200 fps. No key holes and ejects spent cases without any problems.

 

[Fremmer]

Hey, as long as it shoots, go with it!

"Ya shoot what ya brung!"

 

[mavracer]

"Nobody's perfect"
"The sun shines on every dog's butt once in a while"
And the plural of anecdote is not data.

 

[Yarddog]

"BSA, who makes 22 mag ammo strictly for handguns?"

Gold Dot,, Short Barrel personal protection,, By Speer ; )
Y/D