Putting to rest some horsepucky

[Hacker15E]

Armscor spent much of the late 90s and early '00s earning a reputation for lousy quality control with the Charles Daly 1911 line.

That's no horsepucky, and is part of the reason their name is soiled today despite 10 years of the Twin Pines/Rock Island 1911s being outstanding bargain/consumer-grade pistols with superb customer service.

 

[BSA1]

Magnuumpwr;

Hornady 22 WMR 45 gr FTX® Critical Defense;

“High Performance Hornady FTX® Bullets
Unaffected by thick and heavy clothing, the 45 gr. FTX bullet delivers superior controlled expansion and terminal ballistics comparable to the 380 Auto Critical Defense load. It offers superb accuracy and devastating terminal performance in a a rifle.

Powder
Optimized for short-barreled firearms, the 22 WMR features clean burning propellants with low flash and blast to help protect night vision.

Highest Quality Cases
Silver nickel-plated cases prevent corrosion and are easily visible in low-light situations.”

http://www.hornady.com/store/22-WMR-45gr-Critical-Defense/


Speer Gold Dot® Short Barrel® Personal Protection - 22 Win. Mag.

“The newest addition to the Speer® Gold Dot Short Barrel line is the 40-grain .22 WMR hollow point. If this is the personal defense chambering you prefer, then this specialized new round is a must-have. Optimized for use in 2-inch barrels, it's designed to provide less kick, and will get reliable expansion. Gold Dot ammunition is known for superb performance, accuracy and reliability. No other ammunition offers such consistent high-performance. Nickel-plated for reliable feeding and extraction, this proven Short Barrel load is sure to perform.”

http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/short_brl.aspx

22 Winchester Mag. 40 Grains gr. PDX1 Defender;

Recommended for home defense by Winchester.

The American Rifleman has a interesting online article about usingthe22 Magnum for self-defense;

http://www.americanrifleman.org/article.php?id=13081&cat=27&sub=29

But we have got off target as to why I have to buy apples (very expensive ones at that) with worms in them.

p.s. How do you know I am bald???

 

[highpower]

I think that there is a lot of brand snobbery when it comes to guns. For far too many people a gun just HAS to be made by a certain manufacturer in order for their world to be right.

I have certain guns that I like more than others. I like Colt and Smith and Wesson revolvers. I am just not interested in most other types of wheelguns although I have a couple Rugers.

Now, with that being said, I can say that I have tried a few different brands of autoloaders that were clones of name brand platforms and really have had no problems with any of the ones I have owned. The FM (Argentina) Hi Power I had worked flawlessly as did the Argentine 1911-A1. Both were quality guns that I would still have had they not been stolen.

I bought my first RI 1911 on a whim to see how good it really was and I liked it so much that I bought a second one. In a heads-up comparison with my Colt 1991-A1, I found that the trigger and general function to be virtually identical between the two. No FTF or FTE's with either one and that included some 25 year old reloads with lead 180 and 200 grain SWC bullets I had laying around.

That's right, a $500 gun shot the same as a $1000 gun. The RI comes with a polished feed ramp and throat, lowered and relieved ejection port and while the exterior finish was not a pretty as the Colt, the important interior parts were finished very well.

So, those of you that feel the need to downplay the Rock Island line of 1911's go ahead. I will be quite happy to shoot my inexpensive and reliable Rocks as well as my expensive and reliable Colt.


PS. To the OP If you break up your post into paragraphs with spaces between them, it is MUCH easier to read.

 

[orionengnr]

I'm simply stating that because there's one bad apple in the bunch you don't burn down the orchard. Seems pretty clear to me.

So, let me get this straight. Everyone who has ever come here and bitched about how their XYZ is a POS is "burning down the orchard"?

Sounds like a) someone is seriously invested in RIA products or b) someone is exceptionally thin skinned. Take your pick.

Armscor spent much of the late 90s and early '00s earning a reputation for lousy quality control with the Charles Daly 1911 line.
That's no horsepucky, and is part of the reason their name is soiled today despite 10 years of the Twin Pines/Rock Island 1911s being outstanding bargain/consumer-grade pistols with superb customer service.

I can't comment on the second sentence, and probably will not get the opportunity...largely because I can validate from personal experience that the first sentence is true.

Add to that, the fact that not only did they have no interest in fixing it, but they could/would not answer phones or return calls, or sell me simple parts. I ended up buying aftermarket springs and parts to fix it. It is long gone, and not missed in the slightest.

 

[Bufford t. Justice]

If I didn't know better I'd swear some of you just post here to complain or run down anything you can. Very sad. The whole point of this post was to point out that every gun manufacturer has had products returned for defects and that they all make mistakes. The important thing to take away from this is how that maker responds and handles the issues. Armscor has a top notch service dept. Any issues are addressed with minimal turn around time. All of you who like your high end brands, more power to you if you can afford them. Good for you. I'll be sure to send you a cookie or something.

 

[Fiv3r]

I bought a brand new RIA CS model that wouldn't lock open after the last shot. No biggie, but I sent them an email to ask for advice. They sent me a new slide release and mag release within two days, free of charge. They even sent me a couple of stickers.

The replaced slide release fixed the issue but it was IMPOSSIBLE to manipulate it with one hand. I had to sling shot the gun closed. No biggie, again. I emailed the gentleman again, and he immediately sent me an RMA form to print out as well as a copy of a FedEx next day air label (once again, at no cost).

I had an email confirmation that they had looked at the gun, fixed it, and test fired it within about 4 days of sending it off. When I received the gun back a few days later, it was clean, lubed, tuned, and had a ramp polish. I got some more free stickers, a cool jacket pin, some posters, and a DVD of their 2013 product line-up. Nothing high dollar, but I felt the tuning and the goodies were more than compensating me since I was out ZERO dollars so far.

In short, yeah, it was a bummer to send back a brand new gun. However, it wasn't a REAL issue. I mean it is, but it wasn't like the gun was jamming or striking the primers lightly. When I got the gun back, I felt that it was more than worth the mild hassle of having to shoot other guns for a week and a half to get that sweet, sweet, butter-smooth tune up that mine got.

I love my RIA. I stuck their pin on my jacket and wear it proudly. I don't really NEED a high dollar 1911. I'm not that picky about my guns. If I pull the trigger and it goes bang, then I'm happy. A very basic, and now very, very reliable, GI style 1911 is all I require. RIA offers me that in spades. I'll be purchasing another sooner or later. The hoops I had to jump through were minimal, and I feel that the end result was a pistol that will hang with one at twice the cost even if it cost me a little time to get it to that point.

I don't leave the house without my little CS keeping me company in my truck. Just a sweet fist-full of .45.

 

[PabloJ]

Ok, for the perfectionists out there there is Korth of Germany. Bench-made by craftsmen,
therefore, getting one with issues is ZERO. It's just like double gun guys complaining about now discontinued round frame mass-produced Ruger Gold Label..... I referred them to David MacKay Brown of Scotland as I did not want bunch of disappointed Laddies.

 

[osteodoc08]

My take on the whole Armscor/RIA guns

1. They are what they are. A fair quality budget gun made on, reportedly, original Colt equipment in the Phillipines.

2. Have less "fluff and buff" compared to more higher priced 1911. That's not to say they arent serviceable. They just have more machining marks with, generally, non branded sights.

3. Represent a good value to those not wanting to spend a lot of money, but expect the gun to function as intended.

4. I bought my soon to be father in law a RIA tactical model. It isn't as polished as my Kimber or Smith 1911's, but the targets don't know the difference.

I have nothing but positive remarks for the RIA guns.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

I own 1 RIA, it’s their milspec 1911 and it’s a good basic entry level 1911, which is all I want in a 1911.

I haven’t heard that they have any QC issues really until this thread. What I have heard is that their customer service is consistently good and their products work.

I’m not a 1911 aficionado but I’ve had a chance to examine a RIA side by Side with a Kimber and I didn’t notice any difference that was apparent to the naked eye.

The closest analogy I can make is some one who bought a CHEV-vette and is pissed because it doesn’t run like a COR-vette

 

[BLB68]

I don't know what forum the OP has been reading, but I've only gotten the impression that Armscor makes a decent budget 1911.

This news of their bad reputation is entirely new to me.

 

[Jim K]

Maybe I am wrong, but I wasn't aware that Armscor made anything; I thought they were strictly importers.

Jim

 

[tarosean]

If I didn't know better I'd swear some of you just post here to complain or run down anything you can. Very sad. The whole point of this post was to point out that every gun manufacturer has had products returned for defects and that they all make mistakes. The important thing to take away from this is how that maker responds and handles the issues. Armscor has a top notch service dept. Any issues are addressed with minimal turn around time. All of you who like your high end brands, more power to you if you can afford them. Good for you. I'll be sure to send you a cookie or something.

you seriously need to unbunch your knickers...

Every manufacture has its detractors and adoration. Its not snobbery or elitism its just people defending or irked at what they spent their hard earned money on.

Yes, every large scale manufacture has produced a lemon thats no sercret.. With that said though, when you go to 1911 boards there are manufactures past and present who continually show up in Help, Problems, etc. threads. Thats a fact like it or not.

 

[Hacker15E]

Maybe I am wrong, but I wasn't aware that Armscor made anything; I thought they were strictly importers.

Jim

Nope...they build what a lot of others import under different names;

- Charles Daly
- High Standard
- Rock Island Armory
- Cimarron

...and others.

They also, of course, import their own under their own house brand.

 

[Rom828]

I purchased my RIA GI knowing what I was getting into. Years ago I remember sneering at them in the LGS. I got mine as a "truck" gun. It is my constant companion in the bush, it can ride on my hip all day long when I'm on my quad and still, covered with dust and grime, it will out shoot my Kimber. Zero malfunctions except for some light reloads I made once that wouldn't cycle the gun. It will blow the centers out of targets at 25 yards without trying too hard and I am confident that someday if I need service I will be taken care of. I put away the magazine it came with and use Kimber seven rounders with it. What more can you ask for a gun I paid $400 for?

 

[Hondo 60]

Not to put any company down, but where has "Quality Control" gone?
Seems like they all fired the inspectors.

Guns with "issues" just plain & simple should never be allowed to leave the factory.

If you promise me a brand new gun, I shouldn't have to be the quality control inspector.
It should be, and should work, just as you designed it.

And that goes for ALL gun makers.

Just my 2¢ worth.