GarandOwner
Member
That doesnt sound very "high road" like
Q about survivability of weapon during firefight
- Thread starter MTMilitiaman
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That doesnt sound very "high road" like
Beagle-zebub
Member
It's not that common, naturally, but it totally happens. I've heard at least two instances of it on the History Channel: in one, a pointman patrolling in Vietnam is making first contact with the enemy when his weapon is almost completely split in two by a bullet; in the other, a Marine in either Fallujah or Ramadi gets shot through the colon, with the bullet deflecting slightly of his carrying handle before it hits him. (He says that the bullet would have hit him in the spine had it not been deflected, but he doesn't give any evidence to that effect.)
natecade1
Member
Off topic:BlacklabelOP said:
I disagree. I am quite good at paintball and played on team with full sponserships by smart parts and others for over a year.
I suck at shooter games for the most part.
Back to topic.
As a very experienced paintball player both woodsball and speedball I would put forth the suggestion that (as mentioned) marker hits occur frequently (almost every round in a 5 on 5 match) due to the fact that most have big clunky hoppers that inexperienced players often forget may be left visible. A hopper hit counts and it's really easy for a ref to spot. So we actually aim specifically for the marker equipment.
I have had several rounds were all that is exposed is a hopper and I'll take a second to aim and then throw about 25 bps toward it, thereby eliminating my opponent without ever seeing his person.
GarandOwner said:
I think "sociopath" is the word you're looking for. Killing a cat with paintballs is right up there with killing a cat with a claw hammer as far as disturbed anti-social behavior.
Why stop there? See if you can kill the neighborhood fat kid. If he's not wearing a helmet wouldn't be that hard.
Seriously, though, I think even if the cat was feral that would be considered animal cruelty.
These guys are the reason for gun nut stereotypes. But be nice to them -- more time on the forums means less chance of running into them on the street.
moooose102
Member
i would think that if you were actually in a firefight. with REAL wepons. the last thing you would be worried about was the posibility of your handgun being hit by the other guys bullet! i would be looking for a place to cover ME, so I didnt get hit by one of his bullets! i would worry about my pistol after the fight was over. assuming, of course, that i survived.
effengee
Member
watch the video...
There's a video of a police sniper shooting the revolver from an assailants hand. The bullet went right through the barrel and took it clean out of the guy's hands. Ruined a really nice snubby .357, but before the tear was shed I smiled at the thought of that shot. Something like 80 yards, with a slight wind and a small target that was changing position at the whim of a mentally unstable person... My God that was beautiful!
I think you are asking a question that is best answered by a military armorer that does the triage (for want of a better word) for weapons that have been through combat. IIRC they don't really question or study how/why it happened, they just decide whether or not the weapon is worth fixing/parting for re-fielding purposes. I've spoken to a Vietnam veteran whose life was saved when an enemy bullet hit his rifle instead of him. He told me that he hit the dirt and as he was lifting his rifle up to a shooting position, he saw that it was almost split in half. When he returned to base, the armorer "wrote it off" and stripped it of any good parts and tossed the rest in a big pile of other broken firearms that was later disposed of.
I'm sure this has happened many more times than we all think, but I can't recall ever finding a study where there is hard evidence of how often it happens...
I'm not military, and PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the biggest reason the basic infantry is issued only one firearm is a simple question of weight encumberance...
There's a video of a police sniper shooting the revolver from an assailants hand. The bullet went right through the barrel and took it clean out of the guy's hands. Ruined a really nice snubby .357, but before the tear was shed I smiled at the thought of that shot. Something like 80 yards, with a slight wind and a small target that was changing position at the whim of a mentally unstable person... My God that was beautiful!
I think you are asking a question that is best answered by a military armorer that does the triage (for want of a better word) for weapons that have been through combat. IIRC they don't really question or study how/why it happened, they just decide whether or not the weapon is worth fixing/parting for re-fielding purposes. I've spoken to a Vietnam veteran whose life was saved when an enemy bullet hit his rifle instead of him. He told me that he hit the dirt and as he was lifting his rifle up to a shooting position, he saw that it was almost split in half. When he returned to base, the armorer "wrote it off" and stripped it of any good parts and tossed the rest in a big pile of other broken firearms that was later disposed of.
I'm sure this has happened many more times than we all think, but I can't recall ever finding a study where there is hard evidence of how often it happens...
I'm not military, and PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the biggest reason the basic infantry is issued only one firearm is a simple question of weight encumberance...
UnclePete
Member
Quote:
That makes sense. Has it gone up or down from the 500,000 rounds to inflict a single casualty I remember hearing was the case in Vietnam?
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In that vein, here are the latest annual ammo usage figures by the 8000 British troops in Afghanistan.
The amount of ammunition used by UK forces in Afghanistan between October 2007 and 30 September 2008, the latest date for which data is available, is set out in the following table:
Type of Ammunition Total
7.62mm (all variants) 2,492,600
5.56mm (all variants) 2,667,000
0.5 inch (all variants) 398,000
12.7mm (all variants) 1,800
9mm (all variants) 143,000
0.338 inch 13,800
12 bore shotgun (all variants) 300
105mm artillery (all variants) 22,100
30mm Armoured Fighting Vehicle rounds 9,500
30mm Attack Helicopter rounds 39,400
That's about 6,000,000 small arms rounds for maybe a few hundred taleban shot. It would be interesting to see the equivalent US figures.
That makes sense. Has it gone up or down from the 500,000 rounds to inflict a single casualty I remember hearing was the case in Vietnam?
----------------------------------------------------------------
In that vein, here are the latest annual ammo usage figures by the 8000 British troops in Afghanistan.
The amount of ammunition used by UK forces in Afghanistan between October 2007 and 30 September 2008, the latest date for which data is available, is set out in the following table:
Type of Ammunition Total
7.62mm (all variants) 2,492,600
5.56mm (all variants) 2,667,000
0.5 inch (all variants) 398,000
12.7mm (all variants) 1,800
9mm (all variants) 143,000
0.338 inch 13,800
12 bore shotgun (all variants) 300
105mm artillery (all variants) 22,100
30mm Armoured Fighting Vehicle rounds 9,500
30mm Attack Helicopter rounds 39,400
That's about 6,000,000 small arms rounds for maybe a few hundred taleban shot. It would be interesting to see the equivalent US figures.
Only a few hundred?
Seeing that more than 600 hundred were killed in a single month (July, 2006) I bet in the last six years it has topped a few thousand (or ten).
We (western military powers) are killing Taliban like crazy over there.
Edit - Couldn't find any numbers about the Taliban but Stars and Strips says Coalition forces have killed "18,832 suspected insurgents" since 2003 (not completely topical since these numbers are from Iraq).
Seeing that more than 600 hundred were killed in a single month (July, 2006) I bet in the last six years it has topped a few thousand (or ten).
We (western military powers) are killing Taliban like crazy over there.
Edit - Couldn't find any numbers about the Taliban but Stars and Strips says Coalition forces have killed "18,832 suspected insurgents" since 2003 (not completely topical since these numbers are from Iraq).
OP
OP
MTMilitiaman
Member
Agreed. The RCO rocks. That is has been called the largest upgrade to firepower and effectiveness available to the Marine since the adoption of the M1 Garand doesn't surprise me.
Seriously?
The cat was a mistake. Back when I was in college, my friend and roommate had a tricked out Spyder that would do 18 to 20 bps. He got tired of having cat footprints on his windshield every day. One day he saw the cat down in the driveway, got his paintball gun, waited for it to wonder in front of the dumpster, and put about 12 balls out at it from 50 to 60 feet. Two consecutively hit the cat in the side of the head, and it simply fell over and started twitching. It wasn't the desired effect, but one stray cat in a garbage bag tossed in a dumpster is not the end of the world to me. It isn't like we caught it and started it on fire or something.
Neighborhood fat kid? I was thinking more handicapped chemo patient at a childrens' hospital. Get real.
As for the birds and squirrels, cry me a river.
La Pistoletta
Member
[quote="MTMilitiaman]The cat was a mistake.[/quote]
If it was aimed and fired at, it wasn't a mistake. That was somebody's pet, perhaps a family member for since 10 years past.
If it was aimed and fired at, it wasn't a mistake. That was somebody's pet, perhaps a family member for since 10 years past.
OP
OP
MTMilitiaman
Member
But the desired effect was not to kill it and indeed, having just gotten into the paintball scene, neither of us expected that to occur. The idea was to scare it enough that it stayed off of and away from the vehicles. It isn't something he was particularly proud of doing and both of us felt it was a little unfortunate, but neither of us lost any sleep over it.
I got it. Never point a weapon at anything you are not willing to destroy. Check. Both of us were willing to destroy the cat as neither of us shed a tear for its unfortunate demise. It was an outcome that was accepted, even as less than ideal. But neither of us were proud enough of it to have bothered repeating it.
He waited for it to get in front of the dumpster so that a) any stay balls would have an adequate backstop to not hit cars or houses and b) the impacts would be loud enough to scare the critter into a different pattern of behavior. Lessons were learned by all parties involved, some more immediately permanent than others, and even if the desired effect wasn't accomplished, it was still effective--no more paw prints on the windshield.
It isn't like a witnessing a single act denotes an underlying trend or pattern of activity. Some here are insinuating that this makes me into a deranged serial killer like accidentally terminating the life of a mischievous house cat makes me into Dr. Mengele, and that just isn't right. I shouldn't be expected to take those kind of attacks on my character from a forum called "The High Road."
I got it. Never point a weapon at anything you are not willing to destroy. Check. Both of us were willing to destroy the cat as neither of us shed a tear for its unfortunate demise. It was an outcome that was accepted, even as less than ideal. But neither of us were proud enough of it to have bothered repeating it.
He waited for it to get in front of the dumpster so that a) any stay balls would have an adequate backstop to not hit cars or houses and b) the impacts would be loud enough to scare the critter into a different pattern of behavior. Lessons were learned by all parties involved, some more immediately permanent than others, and even if the desired effect wasn't accomplished, it was still effective--no more paw prints on the windshield.
It isn't like a witnessing a single act denotes an underlying trend or pattern of activity. Some here are insinuating that this makes me into a deranged serial killer like accidentally terminating the life of a mischievous house cat makes me into Dr. Mengele, and that just isn't right. I shouldn't be expected to take those kind of attacks on my character from a forum called "The High Road."
leadcounsel
member
In the last year I read an article about a cop that shot a criminal armed with a revolver. The officers' bullet lodged IN THE WHEEL OF THE CRIMINALS' REVOLVER!
LtShortcut
Member
Except for the exercise.
I've played paintball for over a decade and with thousands of rounds and hundreds of games you will see some odd things occur.
And with two deployments to Iraq I havn't seen anyone get their weapon shot, I imagine it does happen. But I havn't seen it.
As for the 500,000 rounds per enemy casulty? We shot 1600 rounds to kill 6 guys one night. It took us 4 rounds to kill 1 guy another night. Just depends on where you are I suppose.
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