Question about American Sniper RE: guns used

[CaseyRyback]

I finally saw American Sniper last night and was wondering how factually accurate the movie was. Reason I ask is because the enemy sniper in the movie was using an AK47 and was shooting American soldiers from "over a mile away" according to that final battle scene in the movie where Chris Kyle finally killed the guy.

I'm guessing the movie was close to reality because it would seem an odd choice for them to pick an AK as the enemy sniper's weapon of choice if they had their pick at any firearm for a sniper to use.

I know AK's aren't typically considered the most accurate of rifles and they sure as heck aren't typically used as a sniper rifle (or are they?). Assuming that movie is accurately portraying what happened, that's a damn impressive sniper!

 

[CaseyRyback]

haha i guess my question is "did that guy really use an AK47 to pick off American soldiers from impressively long distances as the movie suggests?"

 

[M-Cameron]

I finally saw American Sniper last night and was wondering how factually accurate the movie was. Reason I ask is because the enemy sniper in the movie was using an AK47 and was shooting American soldiers from "over a mile away" according to that final battle scene in the movie where Chris Kyle finally killed the guy.

that was not an AK....that was a Dragunov or PSL sniper rifle(both rifles appeared in the film).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragunov_sniper_rifle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSL_(rifle)

now ive never been in the armed forces....but from everything ive heard, it was fairly accurate.

but also bare in mind, at the end of the day, it is just a movie, and parts will be accentuated and dramatized to make it more exciting/ enjoyable to watch.

 

[roadchoad]

It was an PSL I think? 7.62x54, closer to .308 than 7.62x39....

EDITED: Not RPK, I can never keep my ruskie gun terms straight.

 

[Starch45]

According to IMFDB.org, there were two guns used in the movie by Mustapha (the main nemesis of Chris Kyle), a FPK/PSL Sniper Rifle and an SVD Dragunov

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/American_Sniper

 

[CaseyRyback]

ah yes, dragunov would make sense but there was a line in the movie where chris kyle says something to the effect of "It looked like he was holding an AK"

 

[Sam1911]

It WOULD look like he's holding an AK from any great distance. The scale is different, but the guns do look quite a lot alike.

 

[RustyShackelford]

IMfdb.org ....

For the new members, IMFdb.org is a great resource for finding out details about Hollywood movie guns or props.

As for American Sniper, I thought the weapons and military stuff were fairly accurate.
One minor point I noticed was how Chris Kyle(Bradley Cooper) wore his sidearm; a SIG P220R .45acp with the hammer cocked back, .
Any gun owner or SEAL/law enforcement officer would know the .45acp wouldn't need to be carried that way. SIGs are TDA or tradional double action.

I also take issue with Cooper wearing the 3 desert style camo uniforms. Kyle stated in the book: American Sniper he wore desert camo with USMC patterns. This digital camo is different.
The 3 color camo desert format was designed by US Army general Norman Schwartzkof & phased out of military use by about 2005.

Another book and soon to be TV project is The Reaper.

 

[WardenWolf]

It was probably actually an Iraqi Al Kadesiah rifle, not an SVD. The Al Kadesiah is an odd, locally-produced variant on the SVD. They look very much alike, but no parts interchange.

 

[Al Thompson]

The 3 color camo desert format was designed by US Army general Norman Schwarzkopf.

Nope. It pre-dated Stormin Norman. First saw it when we started Bright Star exercises in Egypt about 1980. The pattern was designed in the 1960s.

 

[jmr40]

I don't know exactly what Chris Kyle actually wore, but most members of the elite SEAL teams wear what ever uniform they want to wear. Same with any weapons or other gear. They have a lot of leeway in choosing their gear. Much more than even standard SEALS.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Desert camo....

The version I'm mentioning is the desert style co-designed by General Schwartzkof. It was lighter, made of cotton/nylon & had 3 colors.
It's not the chocolate chips type desert pattern which was older.
The newer 3-color desert style camo was used & authorized in Somalia/Restore Hope(1993 era). In the early 2000s, the US armed forces slowly converted to newer digital camo styles. I don't know of many digital military uniforms in the early 1960s, .

It should be noted too, many tier one special ops units wear different outfits or even civilian clothes as required.
I read a non fiction military book by a ex SEAL officer who stated in a special warfare unit he served in, he only wore military uniforms twice in three years. The first time was only for a formal awards ceremony.

 

[The Exile]

If you ever need to know the guns that were used in a movie be sure to check out IMFDB.org which is basically wiki that keeps track of that type of stuff. You can also seach which movies used a certain gun if that tickles your fancy.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Cammy-Os....

I did a little web spinning this evening....
The "coffee stain" 3 color desert US Army fatigues were authorized in 1991. The blend/pattern was discontinued by the DA/DoD in 2005. This is when the ill fated ACU or digital pattern camo Army Combat Uniform became the official military uniform.

For those who care(and aren't bored to tears, ), the US Army has a brand new military combat uniform & camo pattern. I think it's called Scorpian II but I've read about 5-6 different brand names. It's like Crye Precision's MultiCam style but a bit muted. I think it will be fielded by the end of FY 2016 but don't quote me....

Rusty

 

[herrwalther]

Any gun owner or SEAL/law enforcement officer would know the .45acp wouldn't need to be carried that way. SIGs are TDA or tradional double action.

While not common, there isn't anything wrong with carrying a DA/SA pistol with the hammer cocked as long as it is in a good holster with trigger coverage.

For those who care(and aren't bored to tears, ), the US Army has a brand new military combat uniform & camo pattern. I think it's called Scorpian II but I've read about 5-6 different brand names. It's like Crye Precision's MultiCam style but a bit muted. I think it will be fielded by the end of FY 2016 but don't quote me....

Close. It is called OCP (Operational Camouflage pattern) or Scorpion W2. From what I can tell it is MultiCam with less black blotches in it. The main issue "big Army" had with black was it is not a naturally produced color, so having black in uniforms does less to break up outlines than without. Word is it is made by the same company that makes Multicam but cheaper. The original reason Multicam wasn't adopted was because it was more expensive than ACU. Now the budget circle has come full around back to "Multicam." I would like to keep my surplus military crap in two colors BDU and ACU. I don't need a third.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Not me....l

I've carried several brands of DA, DAO and striker fired semi auto pistols over the last 25 years or so.
I never looked down and said; hey, I should carry my pistol with the hammer completely back and with a trigger pull weight of 3.5-5.0 lbs, .
If I sat on a jury and a defendant said; I don't see the problem, I'd disagree.

As for the military camo patterns, I like the USMC version. The woodland or green type. I had a USMC digital desert T shirt in the 2000s.
To my knowledge too, the new military camo will be used by the other service branches once the garment-contracts run out.
Reportedly, the DoD wants to get back to all the services using the same patterns and fabrics like they did up until about 2005 or so. It's better for logistics and the budgets.

 

[russianbear]

Thanks to the OP and everyone who posted, replies in this thread.
IMHO it was one of the best threads I have read in this forum.

 

[rodregier]

The material I've read suggests that the semi-auto SVD pattern rifles fed "match grade" 7.62x54R ammunition are around a 1-MOA capability.

For those who are new to this material, the exterior ballistics of the 7.62x54R are similar to the .30-06 cartridge given similar projectile weight and construction.

 

[Tirod]

The biggest reason the Army chose Scorpion W2 is that Crye submitted it for trials early on and the Big Army thinks it has the copyright on it. That allowed them to sidestep Crye's offer to buy out Mulitcam and have it taken off the market so it would be official issue. IIRC the last offer from Crye was a purchase price of $25 million - and a lot of us (you and me) would never see it offered at retail anymore.

As for the "new" pattern, the Army does have dates set for it to be in use, the issues they are facing how much the old and new ones can be blended, and getting field gear to complement it. The pics of soldiers overseas in desert camo with Woodland load bearing vests are the issue - field kit wears out much more slowly than uniforms.

With the implementation of a new camo there is the possibility that we will finally discover who made the final decision to wrap us in Blue Ghost. That individual has been undisclosed from day one, and it's been a closely held secret for years.

Do you know who decided it? I suspect it was political and involved selection by contribution to their reelection campaign.

 

[JohnBiltz]

Not going to get into the guns but the movie was very different from the book so probably not very accurate.

 

[Averageman]

The current issue of "Recoil" magazine has a four or five page write up on the guns in the movie.
BTW, after the previous editor put his foot in his mouth, he was fired, they have new management and it's a better magazine because of it.
A one mile shot with a PSL is pushing the outer limits of even fiction, I think anything outside of 1000m is about as far as it is capable even with a well trained shooter. There may be a rare exception, but again, that is rare.

 

[mavracer]

One minor point I noticed was how Chris Kyle(Bradley Cooper) wore his sidearm; a SIG P220R .45acp with the hammer cocked back, .

Are you sure it was the Sig? they actually followed reality and had Cooper carry a TRP on the first tour.

Any gun owner or SEAL/law enforcement officer would know the .45acp wouldn't need to be carried that way. SIGs are TDA or tradional double action.

Not all Sigs are TDA they make DAO and SA versions that are capable of cocked and locked carry.

 

[M-Cameron]

The current issue of "Recoil" magazine has a four or five page write up on the guns in the movie.
BTW, after the previous editor put his foot in his mouth, he was fired, they have new management and it's a better magazine because of it.
A one mile shot with a PSL is pushing the outer limits of even fiction, I think anything outside of 1000m is about as far as it is capable even with a well trained shooter. There may be a rare exception, but again, that is rare.

well if i recall....Mustapha was a mile out when Kyle shot him......but that doesnt mean that mustapha was engaging targets at a mile.....he very well could have been engaging closer targets ...

 

[jrdolall]

I too enjoy seeing all the weapons used in movies. Check out some threads on The Walking Dead and see all the guns used in that TV show. Reality isn't what it's all about in a movie.
Movies are made to appeal to the largest number of people possible. The vast majority, and I mean 99.9%, could care less what type of rifle either soldier was using. You could have given them a Mauser and I bet the number of people that noticed would be minuscule. The same goes for the camo. I am not military nor a military historian and I paid no attention whatever to the camo the guys were wearing.
It is my understanding that Mustapha, as portrayed in the movie, did not exist so the type of gun he used wasn't critical to the story. I did notice that he used a Dragunov but wasn't sure on the other rifle.

 

[RustyShackelford]

common mistakes...l

First, I'm aware of SIGs having SAOs(with ambi safety controls), SRTs(short reset triggers), DA only/DAK or Double Action Kellerman, etc.
Cooper's SIG P220R .45acp looked like a regular plain vanilla P220R that he just cocked back. I guess Clint, the director, or a armorer said it was cool.
Also if you read American Sniper, Chris Kyle himself stated he used both the TRP Springfield Armory and the SIG P220R downrange.
In one mission, his pistol gets damaged so he converts to the other model.

I read a few more web articles about the new US Army camo and it says the DoD/services want to revert to the one style by FY 2018. All troops will be mandated to wear the W2 style by FY 2019. This includes reserves and national guard troops.

As a veteran, I can honestly say I never liked the 1980s/1990s era woodland BDUs. The shirt had many flaws. The side tabs would mess with the pistol belt, the pockets were awkward to access if you wore a LCE or web gear.

Rusty