Question about bullet hardness

[savagelover]

Tell me this. If your powder coating and sizing all of your bullet,why worry so much about the bhn of the bullets. I can see the reason for hunting bullets but for just regular target or shooting why does this have to be a big concern. Think about, seems it would be a time and money saver.. johnny

 

[Pottimus]

I am also curious, I just target shoot, and like a lighter load. I cast with Lyman 2 equivalent just in case I want to traditional lube a batch of bullets that have been cast ahead of time....seems to me like softer lead would be best if the powder coat is truly that good. I would like to wean off gas checks if I am not breaking speed records. I have yet to see any leading. Thanks for starting this post.

 

[Seedy Character]

Harder bullet will deform less and is preferred on thick skinned, heavy boned, tough animals, where deep penetration is needed.

Powder coating is for ease of barrel cleaning, allows high velocity without gas check and contains the lead to minimize exposure to the shooter.

95% of what I shoot is powder coated. I have some bullets that are 18 bhn, most are 12.
I don't worry about it. Our deer are not huge.

If I get an opportunity to hunt bigger game, i will use factory loads, jacketed bullets.

Your situation may vary.

 

[reddog81]

PC is used to prevent leading. When pushing bullets at higher velocities you still need to use the correct alloy if you want acceptable accuracy.

 

[Mostly Lead]

Missouri Bullet Company had a nice writeup on selecting the right BHN for a particular application.

 

[Ru4real]

Not a worry, really. Think of it as how do you make good bullets better? I mean better as
(1) more accurate because good obturation means more consistent velocities
(2) less barrel leading because not too hard means obturation and not too soft means no streaking/skidding

From that MBC article posted above

Optimum BHN = PSI / (1422 x .90)

If you don’t care about great accuracy and you enjoy removing lead, then yea, it’s a waste of time and money.

 

[MEHavey]

Buffalo hunters used 20-1 Max.
BN less than '8'

While realizing that these were larger caliber/heavier calibers in general, calibrate
on the fact that the standard soft 44-40 still takes deer quite effectively within it's
iron-sight ranges of 100-150 yds.

Soft lead, 357 or better, any on this continent short of bear in general,
Bear? Soft 375 or better -- short of Brown Bear.
Brown Bear? Lyman #2 Max in 45-70.

 

[MEHavey]

Th old formula Optimum BHN = PSI / (1422 x .90) is from Lee days.
Interesting theoretical starting point, but OBE from my experience.

Bare base, I shoot Lyman#2 (BN-15) up to 28,000 psi
Gas Checked, Lyman #2 up to 48-52,000

 

[savagelover]

PC is used to prevent leading. When pushing bullets at higher velocities you still need to use the correct alloy if you want acceptable accuracy.

Sorry,but I don't buy that.i seem to get good accuracy with hard or soft bullets(powder coated) that is. All I load for is 38/357 rifle and revolver's. Plus my 44 special/ magnum. Love the 44 special. Elmer got me hooked. Plus I've shot a few deer with it using either soft or hard bullets.

 

[Ru4real]

Sorry,but I don't buy that.i seem to get good accuracy with hard or soft bullets(powder coated) that is. All I load for is 38/357 rifle and revolver's. Plus my 44 special/ magnum. Love the 44 special. Elmer got me hooked. Plus I've shot a few deer with it using either soft or hard bullets.

Well, then. Your thread title is a little disingenuous, then. Maybe change it.

from Question about bullet hardness

to Rant about bullet hardness

 

[MEHavey]

Well, then. Your thread title is a little disingenuous, then. Maybe change it.
from Question about bullet hardness
to Rant about bullet hardness

Weeeell.....
While hardness matters (so they say ), I have found soft bullets perform exceptionally well/accurately under some rather trying conditions.
If one can add PC (effectively a polymer paper patch) and maintain that soft-cast performance in even tougher conditions.....

If you're powder coating and sizing all of your bullets, why worry so much about the bhn of the bullets /

Just so....
Your bandwidth (pretty much) doubles.

 

[Seedy Character]

Accuracy and leading are factors of bullet fit to bore.

Undersized bullets lead more and aren't as accurate.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Sorry,but I don't buy that.i seem to get good accuracy with hard or soft bullets(powder coated) that is. All I load for is 38/357 rifle and revolver's. Plus my 44 special/ magnum. Love the 44 special. Elmer got me hooked. Plus I've shot a few deer with it using either soft or hard bullets.

Then why ask? You already know everything there is to know on the subject. Why bother asking if your mind is made up?

No sense following the thread. OP wants a food fight. Nothing more.

 

[savagelover]

No fight just looking for straight forward answers is all. Sorry if I offended you. But I do appreciate your reply.thanks

 

[MEHavey]

Soft/Fast-Rise Pressure makes for an incredibly forgiving combination when fit isn't optimal.
Hard, even slightly undersized, is prescription for disaster.

PC is a very effective leveler.


.

 

[reddog81]

Sorry,but I don't buy that.i seem to get good accuracy with hard or soft bullets(powder coated) that is. All I load for is 38/357 rifle and revolver's. Plus my 44 special/ magnum. Love the 44 special. Elmer got me hooked. Plus I've shot a few deer with it using either soft or hard bullets.

Let me know how those soft bullets work for you when using in rifle calibers.

 

[243winxb]

Soft alloys in magnums may cause bullets to slump or skid. Near pure may cause a 1911 to have feeding problems. Lubed bullets.Coated may be different?

BHN 14 coated vs lubed lead test- https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t5354-powder-coat-bullet-accuracy
Results-

It should also be noted that while the average powder coat group size is better across the board then the lubed group size, the difference is still within the margin of error. I interpret this to mean that while power coat may (or may not) increase accuracy, it certainly doesn’t negatively affect accuracy.

I just use lubed. No experience with coating. Not changing at my age.

 

[savagelover]

Interesting read. Very informative. I appreciate you sharing it with us. Like I said all I load for revolver and my little Rossi 357. But I suppose what works for me might not for others. Here it is next to impossible to get any wheel weights. I was lucky to find some at the scrap yard. So I don't really cast alot.

 

[MEHavey]

Coated may be different?

While PC cannot cover up all sins, it "can" make a difference

 

[reddog81]

Soft alloys in magnums may cause bullets to slump or skid. Near pure may cause a 1911 to have feeding problems. Lubed bullets.Coated may be different?.

The same things happen with too soft and PC’d. PC might be slightly more forgiving but you will run into the same problems.

 

[mdi]

I have always considered PCing as a "soft jacket". I have been casting/PCing/shooting for mebbe 3 decades and have found, from personal experience, bullet hardness isn't as important as some think. For me it's third down the line for my cast bullet consideration. (I believe this "hard cast" fad has come about motivated mainly by the bullet casters/manufacturers. Someone with not a lot of experience thought harder is better and gained a lot of followers, mostly new casters and the commercial casters started giving them what they want; 18+ BHN bullets. The most famous bullet designer/shooter used 16-1 (BHN 11) and 20-1 alloy (BHN 10)...

The hardest I use, not often, is BHN 15 and that's for my 9mm and 30 cal. rifle bullets and my "Mystery Metal" BHN 11-12 for my handgun bullets...

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

Optimum BHN = PSI / (1422 x .90)

After much experimentation, I find the formula to give a better start point than end point.

IOW, the number from the formula will give the softness that the bullet requires to obdurate to fill the bore at the given pressure. The lowest pressure at which the bullet will expand enough to fill the bore.
What the formula does not give is the upper pressure limit.

A softer bullet will not be able to hold the rifling at a certain pressure, that pressure determined by shooting your firearm.

A painted coating will not change that pressure point.

To some extent, a gas check will, as it gives a harder metal to grab the rifling.

 

[AJC1]

Your PC experience reflects my observations for the most part. When or if you up your game beyond pistol rounds let us know how things go. Pistol cartridges do not press the limits and are the bunny slopes of casting and powder coat.....

 

[MEHavey]

Let me know how those soft bullets work for you when using in rifle calibers.

I think you guys have seen this before
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sh...-Lead-amp-PC&p=5001471&viewfull=1#post5001471
(45-70/350grHP/~1,900fps/PC/Pure Lead)

Single data point to be sure....
But existence theorem material.


.

 

[savagelover]

Your PC experience reflects my observations for the most part. When or if you up your game beyond pistol rounds let us know how things go. Pistol cartridges do not press the limits and are the bunny slopes of casting and powder coat.....[/QUOT.
Probably never do any rifle bullets. Getting to old to hunt any more if I do I use my trusty revolver..