question about chokes in a short barrel

[greyling22]

short version: Would a full choke in a short barrel sort of perform like a modified choke in a longer barrel?

long version: My dad has an old wingmaster. At one point in time it had one of those old adjustable poly-choke devices installed on it. Well, many years ago the gun was dropped, and the poly-choke broke off. He had the barrel shortened to around 22-23 inches and threaded for some flush fitting mystery choke. Something thin wall and fairly open. These days he's complaining the gun has no range for dove.

Now, obviously the best option is to replace the barrel with a longer one with a tighter choke, but would finding a replacement choke in a tight pattern (like full or something) help compensate for the short barrel? would getting one that is not flush fit but pokes out an inch or so be of any help?

 

[451 Detonics]

Barrel length isn't really an issue, he needs a tighter choke is all. The purpose of extended chokes isn't to add length but rather to allow fast choke changes between stations in sporting clays without having to dig out a choke tube tool.

I am guessing the mystery choke tube is a Tru-Choke, that is what many smiths used when installing choke tubes.

 

[greyling22]

any way to tell what it is if the brand isn't stamped on the side of the choke when I pull it?

the choke is probably 25+ years old.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

From what I have read, full choke in shotgun barrels between 18 and 32 inches should give similar results with the same ammunition. The pattern density should be more a function of the choke than of the barrel length.

ADDED: My experience is limited: I have a Savage with a 24 inch barrel and a screw-in choke rated Full and shotguns with 28 inch and 32 inch barrels rated as full choke and there is no noticeable difference in pattern with the same ammo. The longer barrels of course give a longer sighting plane for aiming.

 

[Smitty in CT]

The length of the barrel will not affect the choke patterning very much at all... what it will affect is when your shot column begins to spread. In the case of your dad's barrel, it begins to spread 5"-6" sooner than in a 28" barrel, so when you consider a 30 yard shot 5"-6" isn't gong to make that much of a diffence...

A longer barrel can help with the swing and balance of the gun, if that's what he wants to improve, I'd say go for the new barrel, but if he just wants tighter groups... Take the gun down to your local gun shop and see if they can help identify the "mystery" choke tube, most shops will have a collection of "loose" chokes lying around that they can match up to see what you've got...

 

[oneounceload]

Choke affects pattern, not barrel length. barrel length affects swing dynamics. The description of the choke is only an indication of what it is SUPPOSED to do - what it actually will do will be determined by your ammunition at the pattern board.

25 years ago, there were several makers of chokes - Briley, Carlson's, Tru-lock among others.

If there is no name, get the thread pitch/count determined. A call to the various companies should be able to ascertain if it is one of theirs.

Of course, just getting a used barrel already threaded might be cheaper in the long run

 

[Dave Workman]

Waitaminute, guys:

Consider that the shorter the bbl, the quicker the shot column begins to spread once it leaves the muzzle. It may be only a nano-second, but depending upon the configuration of the shot column, size of shot, wad, etc...that shot pattern opens up a bit faster. I've seen this personally when doing tests on certain shot, out of an 20-inch bbl Mossberg 500 with a Mod choke tube and a 28-inch bbl with a fixed modified.
The shot spread out of the Mossberg was slightly larger at 25 yards.

It may be negligible in the long run, then again, maybe not.

 

[greyling22]

well, I'm on vacation today so I wandered over to his house and measured the barrel. Shorter than I thought. 19", IC choke. It's almost a riot gun. So maybe if I could find an improved modified or even modified choke that fit the gun I could have a rough approximation of a mod or skeet 2 choke in a 28" barrel?

 

[buckshoteer]

Im just learning about chokes(haven't owned but two fixed choked guns). I think a choke is just an abrupt constriction too great of a change here. The best chokes are the barrels that have a gradular constriction that may extend the barrel way past the normal dropoff choke point on modern guns. That being said, I have wanted to try for many years now, an extended choke ^like mentioned above^ some of them I heard does have more of distance of constriction. Right now I am not out to buy another gun as of yet, Next one might sport a threaded choke barrel. Great thread, very interesting subject.

 

[oneounceload]

So maybe if I could find an improved modified or even modified choke that fit the gun I could have a rough approximation of a mod or skeet 2 choke in a 28" barrel?

Barrel length has nothing to do with choke constriction which is what determines pattern density at any given range - the difference between a 19 and 28 inch barrel is 9 inches - nothing more, nothing less and does not affect pattern

If you get a Modified choke for the gun, expect a modified barrel (assuming all other factors such as bore diameter, etc. are in spec)

An extended choke does nothing more than give you an easy way to determine what is in the gun, an easy way to change them, and in some cases, a way to protect the muzzle of the barrels should you drop it

 

[greyling22]

got it. I'm with you now. I was think that shot column stuff might have an affect on pattern, but I guess not. Thanks guys.

 

[buckshoteer]

the shotcup usually helps the patterns on a more open choke than a full. my finding is that on a full or extra-full the shotcup gets mashed up too bad causing erratic patterns.

 

[oneounceload]

The purpose of the shotcup is to cushion the pellets somewhat upon ignition and to hold the pellets inside to ease transport down the barrel. The shotcup, or wad, typically has the pellets out of it within three feet of leaving the muzzle.

Now, too tight a choke with a large payload or even large shot pellets can result in what is known as a "blown" pattern - similar experiences can be had when shooting buckshot in a rifled bore or through a rifled choke - the spins results in a "doughnut" shaped pattern where you have a large gaping hole in the middle

 

[buckshoteer]

oneounceload, Great info on wadding not being affected by any choke. I guess the guys that hunt with me with extra-full chokes are not aware of this, will share this info.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Lots of the oldest choke tube installations were for the old Tru Chokes because they didn't need much barrel metal to hang in there. The threads,IIRC, were .795X44TPI.

Most of the major choke tube vendors today carry replacements, Try Briley, Carlson's Colonial, Angle Port, etc.

An extended choke will add a little weight up front on that 19" barrel and help the swing.

I've a truncated 21" barrel with the Tru Choke system and it swings better with an extended tube in place.