Question about custom builds.

[george burns]

What would one buy a new Colt or Springfield, top of the line gun, and have a custom shop change out just about every part other than the frame.
Most alter the frame also rounding and removing material, from most surfaces and putting their own custom finish on it.
Why not instead, just purchase a frame and add the parts right from the beginning, instead of paying twice for the same part? For instance why change out a match grade barrel and hammer trigger. etc., instead of ordering all of the custom parts from Wilson Ed Brown and the rest, and fitting them to the frame.
It would seem redundant to pay for the same parts twice if it was not necessary. I only ask this because it seems from reading the build sheet of a few company's, they are discarding all of the original parts any how.
And how much accuracy do you really gain over a top of the line Colt, or Springfield?
I would imagine that only 1% or the top shooters would benefit from the difference between a 1,500 dollar TRP or Colt rail gun, and a 4000 dollar Wilson, or other custom shop gun.
Just asking an honest question, If you can afford something it is no ones business, I am asking if it makes a difference in the actual shooting for all but the top shooters.

 

[rcmodel]

Why not instead, just purchase a frame and add the parts right from the beginning

Because Colt or Springfield will not sell you a stripped frame.
The only way to get a frame is to buy a complete gun from them if you want a brand name frame to build on.

And how much accuracy do you really gain over a top of the line Colt, or Springfield?

Probably not enough for an average shooter to tell the difference.

But you do get a very nice hand fitted gun that will perform flawlessly the rest of your life.

rc

 

[george burns]

Thanks Rc, that makes sense.

 

[AustinTX]

Why not instead, just purchase a frame and add the parts right from the beginning, instead of paying twice for the same part?

Because it's not possible to buy only a bare frame (and slide) from Colt or Springfield.

In any case, several of the semi-custom shops (Wilson, Brown, and Baer, at least) machine all of their own frames and slides. Some semi-custom shops buy bare frames from Caspian. Building everything from scratch is less common in the full-custom shops where one elite gunsmith does all of the work and turns out just a tiny fraction of the number of guns each year that the semi-custom shops turn out, but some of the top full-custom 'smiths, like Stan Chen and Paul Liebenberg, do build everything from scratch.

And how much accuracy do you really gain over a top of the line Colt, or Springfield?
I would imagine that only 1% or the top shooters would benefit from the difference between a 1,500 dollar TRP or Colt rail gun, and a 4000 dollar Wilson, or other custom shop gun.

A lot of people wouldn't be able to exploit the difference between their G19 or SR9 and a high-end 1911 either. The top-of-the-line 1911s will be significantly more accurate than Colts and Springfields, but buying a semi-custom or custom 1911 isn't only about seeking better accuracy. It's about buying and appreciating an example of master craftsmanship made with superior components and manufacturing techniques as well something that, to varying extents, is made to your specifications.

If your only interest is in improved mechanical accuracy, then it doesn't really make sense to go beyond a Les Baer Concept I or II with the 1.5" accuracy guarantee option (five-shot group of 1.5" or less at 50 yards). These are great guns, and they can be had for well under $2,000 if you look in the right places (though it's less common to see non-direct-ordered Concept line pistols with the 1.5" option instead of the standard 3" guarantee than it is for other Baer 1911s). A Les Baer certainly won't boast the smoothness, refinement, and cosmetic perfection of something from Chen, Liebenberg, Ted Yost, Jason Burton, CT Brian, Brandon Strayer, et al., but they're still very, very nice pistols and great values, and they'll be about as accurate as any other.

By the way, just for the sake of correct terminology, a Wilson is not considered by most to be a custom-shop gun. The borders of the different categories are a bit blurry, but Wilsons, Browns, Baers, Nighthawks, etc. are generally classified as semi-custom guns.

 

[tarosean]

And how much accuracy do you really gain over a top of the line Colt, or Springfield?
I would imagine that only 1% or the top shooters would benefit from the difference between a 1,500 dollar TRP or Colt rail gun, and a 4000 dollar Wilson, or other custom shop gun.
Just asking an honest question, If you can afford something it is no ones business, I am asking if it makes a difference in the actual shooting for all but the top shooters.

While I have never owned a true custom. (Chen, Rogers, Yost, Swenson, etc) rather a host of semi-custom guns...

For me it was never about accuracy.. I just sold my most accurate 1911, as I no longer shoot stationary at targets and it was limited to all but one class in competition. (L-10)

More the fact about longevity and reliability with tool steel parts, pinned instead of glued, no plastic MSH's, 70 series, etc. etc. etc.

Heck I went to pick up some new mags last night and almost spent more than I like to on a gun...

 

[WC145]

Folks pick different guns or frames/slides as the foundations for custom builds for any number of reasons. 1911s are 1911s but they're not all the same or equal, there are variations from brand to brand in frame weight, thickness, etc, which makes a difference in how they feel in the hand. Personally, I prefer Colts, I like the grip frame profile and the tend to be on the lighter side compared to others. Plus, they're Colts.

I've owned a number of custom Colt 1911s, mostly vintage jobs by Behlert and Clark, and when it was time for me to commission the build for my perfect 1911 the base gun I chose was a full size Colt 1991A1 .38 Super that I had purchased several years earlier. Yes, it was gutted and refitted with all new internals, yes, lots of metal was removed, yes, it was refinished, yes, it is substantially more accurate than it was, yes, it runs perfectly and with three different barrels/calibers. However, there is more to owning and shooting a custom gun than accuracy. The feel, fit, and finish of this gun is exactly what I wanted, not a committee, not you, not Bob down the street. Of all the 1911s I've owned, this one is mine, built for me, and I know it the moment I pick it up, the work that has been done makes it fit me like no other and gives it a unique feel in my hand. IMO, that's why you have one built.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I would imagine that only 1% or the top shooters would benefit from the difference between a 1,500 dollar TRP or Colt rail gun, and a 4000 dollar Wilson, or other custom shop gun.

It has been my experience that there is more difference between a $1500 TRP or Colt Rail gun and one going for $2500, than between that $2500 one and a $4000 one.

To arrive at the $1500 price point from a $2500 one, they are cutting some fitting corners. An obvious comparison would be the Springfield TRP and Professional.

While a specific example of a TRP be be as good as some Professionals, all Professionals will be at least as good as all TRPs...and some will be much better

Just asking an honest question, If you can afford something it is no ones business, I am asking if it makes a difference in the actual shooting for all but the top shooters.

I think it is just the opposite. A better gun will help mid-pack shooters reach their potential more easily.

The top shooters can shoot a mid-pack gun better than most mid-pack shooters...they don't need the gun to be perfect for that. But at their level, they can't afford to give up anything to their peers if they hope to compete

 

[stu1ritter]

If you would like to assemble your own choice of parts, STI will sell you whatever you want. From a stripped frame to a total build. They are extremely high quality guns that are one hole accurate at 25 yards.
If you would like to see some of the things that can be built up from the bare STI frame, check out
http://rickhebert.com/pics.html for mild to wild. He lives near me and works on my Colt 1911.
Stu