Question about hand loading Wadcutters

[cfullgraf]

For revolvers, I load my wadcutters with about 1/16" to 1/8" sticking out and taper crimp them.

I've been playing with making a 38 Special Colt 1911. I have not yet mastered getting the last round to feed but otherwise it is fun to shoot. For this gun, I seat the bullet a bit below flush with the case mouth so that I get a roll crimp over the the end of the bullet. I may need to try something else to solve my feeding problem.

With target level loads, I've never had bullet jump with the wadcutters.

 

[Pat Riot]

It will be no problem.

If they didn't list a COL. What would you do?

Probably load it the way I saw the Federal Wadcutter cartridges loaded.

 

[Walkalong]

I would load them like the one on the left, but I bet only the best shooters out there could shoot the difference.
No, the OAL isn't going to be an issue with a low power/pressure target WC load.

 

[kidneyboy]

The Acme Button Nose Wadcutters I load have a cannelure. After some experimenting loading both flush and to the cannelure I chose the latter.
It cycles in the Marlin 1894. It also cycles in the Henry.

 

[Riomouse911]

Pat, your loads look great either flush or with a bit exposed. Well done .

Next, show us how they’re landing on your targets when you get a chance to fire some.

Stay safe.

 

[ericuda]

Looks to me like op has a fairly heavy roll crimp. I guess I don't see a need for much more than a lighter taper crimp to remove any belling. The wadcutters have plenty of bearing surface and should never move but to be clear I have never pushed them very hard. I stick to around 3.0 of bullseye and am happy. Don't wanta hijack but is there any advantage to run wadcutters hotter.

 

[Walkalong]

The Acme Button Nose Wadcutters I load have a cannelure. After some experimenting loading both flush and to the cannelure I chose the latter.

DEWCs loaded the same way.

 

[Walkalong]

.32 Cal Button Nosed WCs loaded the same way. Crimp not yet applied in pic.

 

[cfullgraf]

Don't wanta hijack but is there any advantage to run wadcutters hotter.

For paper punching, no.

You do not want to push hollow base wadcutters. You risk blowing off the skirt of the bullet and having an obstruction in the barrel. Things will not end well if you fire the next round with a skirt lodged in the barrel. Stick with target level loads with hollow base wadcutters.

Solid base wadcutters could be driven faster than target level loads but at some point they may become unstable due to their poor aerodynamic shape. I do not know what the limits are.

 

[Pat Riot]

Pat, your loads look great either flush or with a bit exposed. Well done .

Next, show us how they’re landing on your targets when you get a chance to fire some.

Stay safe.

I think I will load some up each way and see if there is a difference with the same charges. Looks like it might be a fun experiment.

 

[rfwobbly]

1. Bullets like the MBC 148gr DEWC can be seated either way...





2. When seated flush, watch out for mid-case bulge...



3. Flush seating with the Dillon seater may require minor modification to the seating anvil...



Hope this helps.

 

[forrest r]

The wonderful world of wadcutters

As mentioned earlier you have a type II wc/button nosed wc. There are 3 types of wc's,
Type 1 typically seated flush or just below the case mouth (what you did) the 175gr double end wc & the 220gr hbwc are type 1 wc's.
Type 2 typically a button nosed wc (what you have) and are seated with the button nose/top drive band out/crimped in the crimp groove, the 162gr bullet. Lyman lists their button nosed wc col @ 1.317".
Type 3 has a tapered nose that's supposed to aid in cylinder/bbl alignment, the 200gr & 245gr bullets are type 3. They are seated/loaded the same as any swc.


Some 35cal (38spl/357mag bullets) left is a 110gr button nosed wc, 2nd from left 148gr button nosed wc, 3rd from left 148gr hbwc, far right 148gr button nosed hbwc.


A little reading on seating of a button nosed wc in the 38spl's.


What the op has is a soft/swaged button nosed wc and is going to try universal clays for a powder/bullet combo.
IMHO:
I burned a little universal clays in the 38spl's over the decades. It tends to be at it's best with max loads or p+ loads accuracy wise. That really isn't the best thing for a soft swaged lead bullet.

 

[Pat Riot]

2. When seated flush, watch out for mid-case bulge...

Thank you. I will keep an eye out for this.

3. Flush seating with the Dillon seater may require minor modification to the seating anvil...

I am using Lee dies. I was concerned that the bullet seat plug might deform the wadcutter bullets, but it appears that it may not.
If it did Lee offers to make custom seat plugs for a small fee. I had one made years ago for .38-55. I am not sure if they still offer this.

I have 3 sets of Lee .38 Spl dies. 1 is set for .357, 1 for standard.38 Spl loading and 1 for Wadcutter loading. The Breechlock system makes it easy to set up the dies and just leave the set. You just have to make sure that you have the bushings at hand.

 

[forrest r]

You're not putting those reloads in a s&w 52 so why load them like you are????

Revolvers have throats in the cylinders, the top bullet is loaded to the recommended col. The bottom bullet is loaded so that is sits/aligns in the throat of the cylinder. No freebore jump & alignment/fit to the throats ='s accuracy.


158gr (640) fn hp & 148gr button nosed wc loaded long in 38spl cases to be shot in a s&w 686 357 revolver. The 640 is sized to .358", has 2 crimp grooves and the bullet is crimped in the lower crimp groove/seated long. The button nosed wc is sized to .357 and is crimped at the top of the middle lube groove/seated long.


Those loads tested above, it's only 50ft but all 3 loads are good enough for nra bullseye.


Testing those 44cal 220gr hbwc's sized to .431" in a S&W 624 for accuracy. That 220gr hbwc was seated flush, crimped in the top lube groove, top of the bottom lube groove and just for the heck of it, loaded backwards making a huge hp.


That 220gr hbwc loaded backwards.


Anyway the rules are. there are no rules other then understanding pressure with the seating depths. Typically I load my button nosed wc's and hbwc's long so pressure isn't an issue. Typical groups with that 200gr type 3 44cal wc @ 25yds


Good luck & enjoy

 

[Pat Riot]

A little reading on seating of a button nosed wc in the 38spl's.

What the op has is a soft/swaged button nosed wc and is going to try universal clays for a powder/bullet combo.
IMHO:
I burned a little universal clays in the 38spl's over the decades. It tends to be at it's best with max loads or p+ loads accuracy wise. That really isn't the best thing for a soft swaged lead bullet.

Thank you for that pressure diagram. That tells one heckuva story in itself.

The bullets I am using are Bear Creek Supply moly coated bullets. They have a BHN of 12-13. The bullets themselves have no cannelures but are soft enough to not deform when roll crimped anywhere on the body of the bullet, as I have done with their other bullet offerings.
Here is a photo of three of BCS’s 148 grain button nosed wadcutters. Side front and rear angles.

You're not putting those reloads in a s&w 52 so why load them like you are????

It’s “monkey see, monkey do”.
That’s a good question. All the wadcutter cartridges I have ever seen have had the bullet flush with the case mouth…until I posted this thread.

It seems to me I have now opened a small can of worms and now have a new segment of reloading and shooting to experience with my newly found interest in .38 Spl Wadcutter cartridges.

 

[Mr.Revolverguy]

Fellas I think I need help am I the only one drooling over the wadcutter pictures The data and conversation is great also but the beauty of a wadcutter

I loaded for the first time 357Magnum Wadcutter talk about a blast.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I love the smell of Bullseye in the morning. It smells like... well, um... you know, Bullseyes.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Thank you for that pressure diagram. That tells one heckuva story in itself.

The bullets I am using are Bear Creek Supply moly coated bullets. They have a BHN of 12-13. The bullets themselves have no cannelures but are soft enough to not deform when roll crimped anywhere on the body of the bullet, as I have done with their other bullet offerings.
Here is a photo of three of BCS’s 148 grain button nosed wadcutters. Side front and rear angles.
View attachment 998213





It’s “monkey see, monkey do”.
That’s a good question. All the wadcutter cartridges I have ever seen have had the bullet flush with the case mouth…until I posted this thread.

It seems to me I have now opened a small can of worms and now have a new segment of reloading and shooting to experience with my newly found interest in .38 Spl Wadcutter cartridges.

Those are like the Speer 148gr. HBWC's I have - no grooves. I also seat them flush just to keep seating simple and tidy. 3.5gr. Bullseye, very light crimp just to help get them into the cylinder more easily, and they are more accurate than I am in any of my .38 revolvers at 25 yards, POA=POI. If I could actually see the sights and the target simultaneously, I might be able to show off some impressive groups.

 

[murf]

play with the crimp and seating depth for accuracy. i run the bear creek 148 gn hbwc bullets and get best accuracy with minimal crimp. don't worry about pushing the velocity up on your bullets as they are not swaged lead.

luck,

murf

 

[meesterdon]

 

[.38 Special]

I suspect - but cannot prove - that distorting a non-cannelured bullet by roll crimping it may be worse for accuracy than would be seating it flush. In my brief foray into PPC shooting, decades ago, flush seated HBWCs seemed to be nearly the only thing on the line.

 

[Blue68f100]

Those are like the Speer 148gr. HBWC's I have - no grooves. I also seat them flush just to keep seating simple and tidy. 3.5gr. Bullseye, very light crimp just to help get them into the cylinder more easily, and they are more accurate than I am in any of my .38 revolvers at 25 yards, POA=POI. If I could actually see the sights and the target simultaneously, I might be able to show off some impressive groups.

I've been in that boat for the last 2 decades. The reason I've started putting Dot sights on the handguns I can.

 

[Pat Riot]

Well, I loaded up some wadcutter rounds in .38 Spl and I made 3 different lengths. The measurements are COL (cartridge overall length) I’ll bet you can’t guess which ones won’t load in a .38 Spl cylinder…


I took my 3 snubnosed .38s to the range.
My S&W 36, my Colt DS and my S&W 442


I decided to only try 2 powder charges in 15 cartridges of each of the 3 lengths. Under each 148 grain Bear Creek Supply button nosed wadcutter I tried 3.2 grains and 3.4 grains of Universal powder. I decided to shoot at 10 yards as 5 yards just seemed too close for a good indicator of accuracy.

I was shooting one handed, right hand unsupported. My left hand is still in a brace from surgery.

From the model 36:
The two top targets are 3.2 grain loads.
#1 is a flush loaded WC
#2 is with the bullet COL at 1.240”
Not sure why #2 hit to the right but a nice group.

The 2 bottom targets are 3.4 grain loads.
The targets with the bullets a bit long in the case at COL 1.240” seem to group better.

Here is what the 1.450” cartridges looked like when loading into my model 36. I literally slapped myself in the forehead, cussed then laughed…I should have known better.


Then came the Colt Detective Special doing the same scenario as the model 36. I almost didn’t bother posting this as accuracy was just plain awful!
The first round of the 3.2 grain load hit the metal target holder on the left side. I was aiming for the bullseye on both top targets. I think it’s safe to say the DS doesn’t like the 3.2 grain load, especially the flush mounted WC cartridge.

For the bottom 2 targets I held the sights at a 6 O’clock hold 5 rounds on each. I don’t think my DS likes slow cartridges. The “Oops” hole above #1 was because I went to fast when aiming and pulling the trigger.

I am not posting the target I shot with my 442. It was downright embarrassing.

I do believe that after reading all of your suggestions and recommendations that I am over crimping my loads. I also think that leaving some of the bullet out of the cartridge like the 1.240” loads might be the way to go, but it is obvious I have some more tinkering to do. I think I need to load up some more and try them with my model 10 and my model 19

 

[Walkalong]

From the model 36:
The two top targets are 3.2 grain loads.
#1 is a flush loaded WC
#2 is with the bullet COL at 1.240”

Seems to like # 2 there. Snubs can be tough to shoot well.

 

[Pat Riot]

Seems to like # 2 there. Snubs can be tough to shoot well.

That 36 is a nice snubby and I agree, it does seem to like the longer cartridge.