Well he also said that, yes it was a bushmaster lower but that the upper was not. So that is what makes me agree with him. Also the fact that he said that if I did want to go make a stink about it to gunshop #1 that he would be willing to come down there with the rifle and show them their mistake. these shops are kind of rivals by the way. I think at this point, I am going to just eat the loss and find a new gunshop all together. I'm really hoping to get hired on with the local fire dept. in the next few months and don't want to do anything that could mess that up.
Question about illegal rifle
- Thread starter Thekid90
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And yes I know this is an extremely goofy story. I just felt like something wasn't right when I got home and thought about it, and it seems to me the most knowlegable people are on this site. I really do appreciate all the replies and I understand if you think I'm a dumb***
VPLthrneck
Member
Seems to me there is another aspect that no one has thought of yet. This AR was bought used at a shop, which seems to me that the origianl owner (who would have sold the gun to the first shop) probably replaced the flash suppressor or chopped the barrel himself. Then got bored with it, or needed money, and sold it off. The first shop just sees a AR with a Bushmaster lower and is happy to have something they can make a few bucks off of.
I myself wouldn't give it another thought, just keep all the paperwork (reciepts, etc.) that you have for this thing. And best of luck on your fire acadamy training.
I myself wouldn't give it another thought, just keep all the paperwork (reciepts, etc.) that you have for this thing. And best of luck on your fire acadamy training.
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TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Well if you feel like you got a fair price for the rifle that's cool, but it just sounds fishy and a gun shop that's doing that should be called out on it if they are ripping people off.
I'd expect a gun store that was being up front about it to pull out a measuring tape and show you, offer to prove to you that there was a real problem somehow.
The "oh crap you better unload this quick" just sounds fishy I guess.
Extremely Pro Gun
Member
Take it apart and sell individually. The upper belongs on an AR pistol legally and you can sell it. You are fine if you take it apart!!!
Cosmoline
Member
In NO EVENT would I let someone else have the firearm in an illegal condition! That could be construed as an illegal transfer even if you get no money out of the deal. At the very least you need to make this guy show you the firearm to verify it has been dismantled, and show that the illegal barrel has been scrapped.
So basically after learning it was ILLEGAL you TRANSFERRED the weapon? Oh, that's not good.
At this point I would not sleep easy until I would got a local lawyers paid advice as to how to proceed. This could be a real problem.
So basically after learning it was ILLEGAL you TRANSFERRED the weapon? Oh, that's not good.
At this point I would not sleep easy until I would got a local lawyers paid advice as to how to proceed. This could be a real problem.
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numaone
Member
I'm from S. Florida. Mind throwing out the names of either gunstore #1 or 2?
DAVIDSDIVAD
member
Too late for that, you just illegally transferred an SBR and posted about it here.
I would've taken it back to the original dealer and demanded a refund.
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Given the fact that you are quite young, I wouldn't worry about this one too much. Everybody does plenty of dumb-ish things when they are young. You made two mistakes: 1. you didn't do enough homework and 2. you made an impulse decision. Just don't make those same mistakes again. Impulse and/or panic decisions generally aren't a good idea.
Who knows what the truth was on this deal. I think it is highly unlikely that there will be any legal complications, as both dealers would have been just as much at fault as you, so they have no reason to file any reports.
Sometimes knowledge and experience costs money. This is one of those times. There will be plenty more of them, too.
Who knows what the truth was on this deal. I think it is highly unlikely that there will be any legal complications, as both dealers would have been just as much at fault as you, so they have no reason to file any reports.
Sometimes knowledge and experience costs money. This is one of those times. There will be plenty more of them, too.
X-Rap
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I bought a DPMS that had a 14.5 barrel and didn't realize for a week or more when I put it in the safe and it stood below the support which is set to handle some shorter legal rifles.
I seperated the lower at once then had the FS tack welded in place permanently. The pawn shop I bought it from didn't notice the length and had nothing in the rack to compare.
The point of my story is the kid more than likely did have a illegal barrel length but with the quick change ability of the AR platform who the heck could know today. He should not worry about illegal transfer and take it as a lesson well learned. My bet is there are plenty uppers floating around that are under 16" since the cataloges only say NFA rules apply and it leaves the rest up to the buyer. I say this because I recently saw another in a gunshop and it was racked with some others and very noticable after my experience.
I like my barely legal, true M4 profile AR and the Vortec FS pushes it to about 16.25". Just glad I caught the problem because I'm sure it would be a heck of a mess to try and straighten out.
I seperated the lower at once then had the FS tack welded in place permanently. The pawn shop I bought it from didn't notice the length and had nothing in the rack to compare.
The point of my story is the kid more than likely did have a illegal barrel length but with the quick change ability of the AR platform who the heck could know today. He should not worry about illegal transfer and take it as a lesson well learned. My bet is there are plenty uppers floating around that are under 16" since the cataloges only say NFA rules apply and it leaves the rest up to the buyer. I say this because I recently saw another in a gunshop and it was racked with some others and very noticable after my experience.
I like my barely legal, true M4 profile AR and the Vortec FS pushes it to about 16.25". Just glad I caught the problem because I'm sure it would be a heck of a mess to try and straighten out.
As others have said, I think you got swindled by a crook.
Seems to me the Bushmaster receiver ought to be worth ALL OF $500 all day long, and the upper should be worth $200 or $300 more.
Also, does anyone know whether the dealer who "took it off the OP's hands" would need a special license to purchase a SBR from the OP?
Seems to me the Bushmaster receiver ought to be worth ALL OF $500 all day long, and the upper should be worth $200 or $300 more.
Also, does anyone know whether the dealer who "took it off the OP's hands" would need a special license to purchase a SBR from the OP?
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If it is illegal for you to own, it is also illegal for that dealer to own. Even if the dealer is a Class 3, authorized to deal in NFA firearms, he cannot take possession of an unregistered NFA firearm. Period.
I think you were ripped off by dealer who is not only unscrupulous but is also in violation of the law himself.
BTW, if someone buys such a gun in innocent ignorance, he CANNOT just "take it back" or sell it to someone else; that would be another illegal transfer. It is contraband, just like counterfeit money or a kilo of heroin. The only thing he can do legally is to abandon (surrender) it to BATFE or the police. And no, he can't legally destroy it; that would be destroying evidence of a felony, the making/transferring of the gun.
Jim
I think you were ripped off by dealer who is not only unscrupulous but is also in violation of the law himself.
BTW, if someone buys such a gun in innocent ignorance, he CANNOT just "take it back" or sell it to someone else; that would be another illegal transfer. It is contraband, just like counterfeit money or a kilo of heroin. The only thing he can do legally is to abandon (surrender) it to BATFE or the police. And no, he can't legally destroy it; that would be destroying evidence of a felony, the making/transferring of the gun.
Jim
X-Rap
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Jim how would you prove that? Within minutes that upper could have been removed and fully disassembled. All the kid has to go on is the lower, if the dirty dealer has pinned or welded a FS in place then there is no violation either. If there is a pistol or other sbr in the inventory then the dealer has a package deal. I think he (the kid ) has little ground to stand on at this point and needs to take it as a lesson learned.
hogshead
Member
Unless he is a class 3 dealer it would be illegal for him to own too ,wouldnt it? Me thinks you got smoked.
Hey sorry I was out working out for a while. thanks for all the replies. Im just going to take it as a life lesson to do more research prior to buying and know what Im talking about instead of trusting the salesman. Gunshop #2 did make the point to break the rifle in half and stated he would be selling the upper and lower seperate. and also they are class 3 (if that even matters)
cassandrasdaddy
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for a man of 19 you are light years ahead of where i was at that age. good luck in your career i think you'll be an asset to the fd.
I would go back an get the gun.. take the upper off and sell it as a upper for a pistol or sbr.. the upper by itself is not ilegal, only if you make a rifle out of it. you can always get a new upper for the lower. sounds like the dealer is tring to steal your gun. he knows better. he is going to do just what i advised you to do.. gunbroker is loaded with 14 inch uppers for sale.. they are legal to sell.
It doesn't matter if the dealer is Class 3, or what the upper might or might not be made into. Someone brought him a rifle that had a short barrel, and that is not registered as an SBR under the NFA. He cannot legally accept it, or possess it, or modify it. He cannot put on an extension. Even as a Class 3 dealer, he can deal only in NFA firearms that are properly registered and transferred to him on the proper forms, not illegal guns that come through the door. In fact, most Class 3 dealers would call BATFE immediately and, if possible, detain the seller. The fact that the dealer did not do so indicates that he is running a shady operation, willing to take a chance for a profit.
I repeat, the owner also could not legally modify the rifle or sell it; the felony has already been committed by illegal possession. The only thing the owner could have done legally was to surrender the rifle and take his lumps for the money. I will also repeat that an unregistered SBR is contraband, just like a counterfeit bill or illegal drugs. If some innocent person accidentally finds himself in possession of a stash of fake $100 bills, he can't legally pass them off on someone else, and no "money dealer" (bank) will just "take it off his hands".
Jim
I repeat, the owner also could not legally modify the rifle or sell it; the felony has already been committed by illegal possession. The only thing the owner could have done legally was to surrender the rifle and take his lumps for the money. I will also repeat that an unregistered SBR is contraband, just like a counterfeit bill or illegal drugs. If some innocent person accidentally finds himself in possession of a stash of fake $100 bills, he can't legally pass them off on someone else, and no "money dealer" (bank) will just "take it off his hands".
Jim
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Very true from a legal standpoint but with the AR and the ease of splitting the parts from a practical matter it's pretty easy to pull the upper and sell it as " just parts".
A dealer sleazy enough to take one in wouldn't have a problem doing that I guess.....but it's risky.
That's why this whole thing seems so fishy and why I suspect the upper was of legal length to begin with. I can't see an FFL risking everything for a few bucks, but I can see one flat out lying about it to buy a gun super cheap and reselling at a profit.
X-Rap
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As a class 3 dealer after he pulled the 2 pins there is little that can be said since the barrel or complete upper would not be unusual, especially days after the transaction. You can say he is dirty or that he was this kids parachute.
There is not enough evidence in the whole shop aside from a signed confession and video tape that would even merit charges let alone a conviction.
None of us can put a tape on the barrel and I doubt that the real one would be produced so while the law was broken would you rather see this young man pay a harsh penalty or say no foul.
There is not enough evidence in the whole shop aside from a signed confession and video tape that would even merit charges let alone a conviction.
None of us can put a tape on the barrel and I doubt that the real one would be produced so while the law was broken would you rather see this young man pay a harsh penalty or say no foul.
AKElroy
Member
This story really makes no sense. If the rifle was IN FACT illegal, then selling it may have been the felony you were seeking to avoid. If ALL of this story is accurate, I would get an attorney to at least have a quick visit regarding your liability, and then report both dealers to LE if you are on safe legal ground & try to get your money back.
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